Ssusage Questions

[Bruce B]

MR. Unity,

Until someone promotes you to the position of Moderator or Administrator I would appreciate it if you would leave those duties to those of us who they have been given.

I don't remember seeing any of your insense when another person other than Bigwheel should happen to poke fun at another member or perhaps insinuate that they may be gay or something. If your going to crticize one, criticize all.

Perhaps we could all try to be a little more consistent in our criticisms and a little more thick skinned.

For the record he said chinamen..he didn't say c h i n k or slant-eye, or other more innappropriate terms. By the way "Texas Bumpkin" is a real cute term too.

 

[Unity]

MR. Unity,

Until someone promotes you to the position of Moderator or Administrator I would appreciate it if you would leave those duties to those of us who they have been given.

I don't remember seeing any of your insense when another person other than Bigwheel should happen to poke fun at another member or perhaps insinuate that they may be gay or something. If your going to crticize one, criticize all.

Perhaps we could all try to be a little more consistent in our criticisms and a little more thick skinned.

For the record he said chinamen..he didn't say c h i n k or slant-eye, or other more innappropriate terms. By the way "Texas Bumpkin" is a real cute term too.

Sorry to appear to be intruding into a moderator's role. I wasn't meaning to do that, I was simply disturbed again at bigwheel's bullying game and calling him on it, writing as a participant in the forum who is not amused by his aggressive "humor." Sorry, too, to disagree, but "Chinaman" is usually considered an offensive term among Chinese-Americans, a slur. Nobody else's joking around has disturbed me, so I haven't felt an urge to criticize others. Seriously, if one should not respond directly to another poster on the forum under these circumstances, what's the right thing to do? PM the administrator and/or moderators? As a newbie, I really don't know what the agreed board preference is. Finally, I spoke of the man's texas bumpkin routine, believing that it's his chosen play-acting role, his shtik. I can't believe that bigwheel would act in public the way he does on the forum. I wish he wouldn't do it here. In my opinion, it's making BBQ-4-U an unpleasant place to visit.

--John

 

[Griff]

Bruce

John is right. "Chinaman" is an offensive term to Asian Americans. The rules state:

"3. Please be respectful to others! Since this is not an invite only site and we have the opportunity to gain new members all the time, we don't want to frighten anyone away because someone is being a JERK or is being COMBATIVE all the time."

"2. Racism / Discrimination: Posts that denigrate another person’s race, religion, culture, or sexual orientation are strictly prohibited."

"Racism/Discrimination: There is NO situation when you can put someone down because of race, ethnicity, religion or sexual orientation. EVER!!!!!! "

I must respectively disagree with your choice to publicly criticize Unity for a single post and blindly ignore bigwheel's ethnic slurs for weeks.

Griff

 

[wittdog]

I guess I'm not the only one with issues :roll:

 

[john pen]

I guess I'm not the only one with issues :roll:

Ya, buts that a whole different thread !

 

[Gary in VA]

Gary,

Wether you read a book or go online, the one thing you need to learn the most is food safety. Dont want to make anyone sick, it takes away form the fun of making sausage. I find it as much fun as BBQ. Once you have made your own, you wont want to buy store bought anymore.

The book wittdog and Nick posted on is a real good book, it talks about food saftey, has a broad range of sausages, good recipes to start with, that you can build on or tweak to your liking, also gets into curing of meats, which too is alot of fun to do, with great rewards in the end....

That brings up some thoughts on food safety that I have been wondering about...

Most have said "make sure that when you grind sausage that your meat is very cold if not partially frozen.. .ok.. i get this.. it works better in the grinder and also keeps the meat at temps out of the "danger zone" when handling...

My question being...

I would like to smoke the sausage... somewhat of a cold smoke for a couple of hours.. and then freeze and then grill it at a later time... Is this not a good thing to do..? since you arent really cooking the raw sausage... should one keep an eye on the temp of the "raw" sausage and not let it get to a certain temp in this case? or should you go ahead and in the smoking process bring it to 140-145 degrees or so but not let it get much higher than that? I am also assuming that the use of "tender quick" in this case is appropriate to create a "cured" sausage?


Let me know where my thinking is wrong or incorrect.. or even correct... I dont want to make anyone sick.


Thanks... just trying to gather as much info as possible.

 

[wittdog]

http://www.getphpbb.com/phpbb/viewtopic ... orum=bbq4u
Gary his is a link to how I smoke my sausage.....I have never used tenderquick but use instacure# 1 or prague powder #1 same product different brand names I belive the tenderquick contain the nitrates and salt so recipes haveto be adjusted for tenderquick vs intsta cure because of the salt levels.....After I smoke the sausage..I place it in the fridge overnight..vac pack and then freeze until ready to use...The Kutas books covers all this....Also after the sausage is done smoking...he recomends that you shower it with cold water till the internal temp is 110* it stops the cooking process and allows the casing to shrink onto the sausage and you dont' get ripples in the casings....Gary the other thing to consider is the use of a binder like soy protein, or non-fat dry milk…I use soy protein…I’ve made Polish Sausage both with and without the soy and I prefer the texture of the stuff with the soy protein…the binder is not a filler it is just extra protein……..If you plan on cool smoking the sausage you need to keep the smoker temp below 190* other wise the fat will melt and you will have very dry sausage.

 

[Pigs On The Wing BBQ]

Maybe we need a sausage section. With the colder weather coming up I sure know I'll be making quite a bit. Greg?

 

[bigwheel]

Dang Gary..you making a lot of sense here as usual..and will agree with you vociferously. Whut most of these folks do not undertand is sausage is a lot like bbq in that if a person wants the best or a reasonable facimle thereof..betta plan on making it yourself. Learnt this the easy/hard way after the first batch of deer an pork fat breakfast sauage got poked through the hand grinder back when Moby Dick was still just a minner. Aint no way any professional sausage maker can compete with a dedicated and only slightly proficient amateur. Jumping quickly over to cold smoking. There aint no rhyme or reason to it in my book. If you gonna go the trouble to smoke it might as well cook it while your at it. Say for example you got cold smoked raw sausage and aim to finish it on the grill or smoker..the previous cold smoke is going to get lost in the shuffle. Am I making any sense here?

bigwheel

Gary,

Wether you read a book or go online, the one thing you need to learn the most is food safety. Dont want to make anyone sick, it takes away form the fun of making sausage. I find it as much fun as BBQ. Once you have made your own, you wont want to buy store bought anymore.

The book wittdog and Nick posted on is a real good book, it talks about food saftey, has a broad range of sausages, good recipes to start with, that you can build on or tweak to your liking, also gets into curing of meats, which too is alot of fun to do, with great rewards in the end....

That brings up some thoughts on food safety that I have been wondering about...

Most have said "make sure that when you grind sausage that your meat is very cold if not partially frozen.. .ok.. i get this.. it works better in the grinder and also keeps the meat at temps out of the "danger zone" when handling...

My question being...

I would like to smoke the sausage... somewhat of a cold smoke for a couple of hours.. and then freeze and then grill it at a later time... Is this not a good thing to do..? since you arent really cooking the raw sausage... should one keep an eye on the temp of the "raw" sausage and not let it get to a certain temp in this case? or should you go ahead and in the smoking process bring it to 140-145 degrees or so but not let it get much higher than that? I am also assuming that the use of "tender quick" in this case is appropriate to create a "cured" sausage?


Let me know where my thinking is wrong or incorrect.. or even correct... I dont want to make anyone sick.


Thanks... just trying to gather as much info as possible.

 

[wittdog]

Dang Gary..you making a lot of sense here as usual..and will agree with you vociferously. Whut most of these folks do not undertand is sausage is a lot like bbq in that if a person wants the best or a reasonable facimle thereof..betta plan on making it yourself. Learnt this the easy/hard way after the first batch of deer an pork fat breakfast sauage got poked through the hand grinder back when Moby d**k was still just a minner. Aint no way any professional sausage maker can compete with a dedicated and only slightly proficient amateur. Jumping quickly over to cold smoking. There aint no rhyme or reason to it in my book. If you gonna go the trouble to smoke it might as well cook it while your at it. Say for example you got cold smoked raw sausage and aim to finish it on the grill or smoker..the previous cold smoke is going to get lost in the shuffle. Am I making any sense here?

bigwheel

Gary,

Wether you read a book or go online, the one thing you need to learn the most is food safety. Dont want to make anyone sick, it takes away form the fun of making sausage. I find it as much fun as BBQ. Once you have made your own, you wont want to buy store bought anymore.

The book wittdog and Nick posted on is a real good book, it talks about food saftey, has a broad range of sausages, good recipes to start with, that you can build on or tweak to your liking, also gets into curing of meats, which too is alot of fun to do, with great rewards in the end....

That brings up some thoughts on food safety that I have been wondering about...

Most have said "make sure that when you grind sausage that your meat is very cold if not partially frozen.. .ok.. i get this.. it works better in the grinder and also keeps the meat at temps out of the "danger zone" when handling...

My question being...

I would like to smoke the sausage... somewhat of a cold smoke for a couple of hours.. and then freeze and then grill it at a later time... Is this not a good thing to do..? since you arent really cooking the raw sausage... should one keep an eye on the temp of the "raw" sausage and not let it get to a certain temp in this case? or should you go ahead and in the smoking process bring it to 140-145 degrees or so but not let it get much higher than that? I am also assuming that the use of "tender quick" in this case is appropriate to create a "cured" sausage?


Let me know where my thinking is wrong or incorrect.. or even correct... I dont want to make anyone sick.


Thanks... just trying to gather as much info as possible.

BW I’m guessing that you don’t have any experience with the cold smoked sausage, there are a variety of reasons to go the cool smoked route, (BTW when you cool smoke the sausage is cooked enough to eat as is) first is texture you get a different texture if you cool smoke or BBQ, second is the smoke flavor, the smoke flavor doesn’t seem to dissipate like the BBQ smoke does after a couple of days. Which is good seeing how most people make big batches of sausage. That can be frozen and consumed later.
.The smoke flavor doing it the cool smoke way goes all the way into the sausage and doesn’t just get depositing in the smoke rings……also the casings will not get tough if cool smoked in the correct manner….

 

[bigwheel]

Au contrarie mon cherie...have had quite a bit of experiences with cold smoking and will give a small hint..nopers cold smoked sauage aint cooked enough to be ready to eat as is. At some point in the process it got to get itself fully cooked before consumption (155 internal is a good target temp)..unless we speaking of dehydrating or dry cured sausages which is a hoss of different color of course. Never noticed the texture change or smoke penetration virtues which you speak as concerns cold smoking vs hot smoking aka..smoke cooking..but will not dispute your assesment as I know of no empirical ways to measure such things. Will say 6 or 7 hours in the smoke cooking mode will make it plenty smokey enough for guv'ment work. Now will agree with you cold smoking dont make the cases tough as that problemo is a function of cooking not smoking so the challenge of obtaining a nice tender bite on the cases is not solved by cold smoking but simply postponed till the cooking phase. Do consider cold smoking as perhaps a plausible option for them who desire a smoke flavor but dont have the necessary equipment to hot smoke and/or plan to finish it in the absence of smoke. Cold smoking can be done with such rudimentary equipment as a cardboard box and a one eyed Wally World hotplate whereas smoke cooking applications become somewhut more complex. Whew..sorry this is so long and windy

bigwheel

Gary,

BW I’m guessing that you don’t have any experience with the cold smoked sausage, there are a variety of reasons to go the cool smoked route, (BTW when you cool smoke the sausage is cooked enough to eat as is) first is texture you get a different texture if you cool smoke or BBQ, second is the smoke flavor, the smoke flavor doesn’t seem to dissipate like the BBQ smoke does after a couple of days. Which is good seeing how most people make big batches of sausage. That can be frozen and consumed later.
.The smoke flavor doing it the cool smoke way goes all the way into the sausage and doesn’t just get depositing in the smoke rings……also the casings will not get tough if cool smoked in the correct manner….[/quote]

 

[bigwheel]

Sometime when you get in an experimental mode and assuming you have the capability...add a water pan to the pit if you dont already have one in place..and try reducing the pit temps down to around 175-180 and allow your sausage to cook to an internal temp in the low 150's. At that point drag em out and shower with or dunk em into cool water to make em stop cooking. Think you will find you have a vastly superior product to whut you are getting now.

bigwheel

I agree with wittdog there are certain types of meats that are cured, some with smoke some with out, these are often not cooked later on, not saying that you couldnt heat it up though. Alot of meats are cured and or cold smoked because teh person that may be buying the product may not have the capabilities to smoke it themselves, say family and friends if you choose to give it away say the holidays. MAkes great gifts along with some rub and sauces. Better than a gift card to most.

Texture is a big factor, a cured product and cooked product have completely different textures and flavors.

I love to smoke my fresh sausage at 230-250* on my pit, I do it all the time, definetly Good Eats!!

 

[wittdog]

Sometime when you get in an experimental mode and assuming you have the capability...add a water pan to the pit if you dont already have one in place..and try reducing the pit temps down to around 175-180 and allow your sausage to cook to an internal temp in the low 150's. At that point drag em out and shower with or dunk em into cool water to make em stop cooking. Think you will find you have a vastly superior product to whut you are getting now.

bigwheel

I agree with wittdog there are certain types of meats that are cured, some with smoke some with out, these are often not cooked later on, not saying that you couldnt heat it up though. Alot of meats are cured and or cold smoked because teh person that may be buying the product may not have the capabilities to smoke it themselves, say family and friends if you choose to give it away say the holidays. MAkes great gifts along with some rub and sauces. Better than a gift card to most.

Texture is a big factor, a cured product and cooked product have completely different textures and flavors.

I love to smoke my fresh sausage at 230-250* on my pit, I do it all the time, definetly Good Eats!!

BW that temp is where I finish my "cool" smoked sausage....the water pan isn't neccesary to get that low of a temp in fact it works better with out water...and my "cool"smoked sausasge is fully cooked and safe for consumption.I feel the need to clarify some things…at no point in this thread did I use the term cold smoked sausage, I used the term “coolâ€

 

[bigwheel]

Well actually I aint never claimed to know anything about "cool smoking" since the first I heard of the phrase come from you. You you appeared to the untrained eye to be using the term as an equivalent of cold smoking as in the quoted passage below:

>BW I’m guessing that you don’t have any experience with the cold >smoked sausage, there are a variety of reasons to go the cool smoked >route, (BTW when you cool smoke the sausage is cooked enough to eat >as is) first is

Just jumped to the irrational conclusion you was meaning "cold smoking" which is a fairly well understood term amongst sausage makers..and is generally considered to take place in the general vicinity of somewhere below 130 degrees. My suggestion to Chuck Wagon Cook to use a water pan was not given as a strategy to reduce pit temps..though it could help function in that regard...but rather to provide a more humid environment in the smoke chamber and thusly provide a softer bite to the cases. Hot smoked sausage (170-190 pit temps) do not require a cure be added but it is certainly always an option for them who want to use it. Same scenario also applies to cold smoked sausage where the smokehouse temps can be held below 40 degrees. Many thousands of pounds of cold smoked sausage is made each winter when the temps plunge below freezing for a few days by folks who not only dont use any type of cure..but also aint never even heard of it. Hope this helps.

bigwheel



[[/quote]
BW that temp is where I finish my "cool" smoked sausage....the water pan isn't neccesary to get that low of a temp in fact it works better with out water...and my "cool"smoked sausasge is fully cooked and safe for consumption.I feel the need to clarify some things…at no point in this thread did I use the term cold smoked sausage, I used the term “coolâ€

 

[wittdog]

Well actually I aint never claimed to know anything about "cool smoking" since the first I heard of the phrase come from you. You you appeared to the untrained eye to be using the term as an equivalent of cold smoking as in the quoted passage below:

>BW I’m guessing that you don’t have any experience with the cold >smoked sausage, there are a variety of reasons to go the cool smoked >route, (BTW when you cool smoke the sausage is cooked enough to eat >as is) first is

Just jumped to the irrational conclusion you was meaning "cold smoking" which is a fairly well understood term amongst sausage makers..and is generally considered to take place in the general vicinity of somewhere below 130 degrees. My suggestion to Chuck Wagon Cook to use a water pan was not given as a strategy to reduce pit temps..though it could help function in that regard...but rather to provide a more humid environment in the smoke chamber and thusly provide a softer bite to the cases. Hot smoked sausage (170-190 pit temps) do not require a cure be added but it is certainly always an option for them who want to use it. Same scenario also applies to cold smoked sausage where the smokehouse temps can be held below 40 degrees. Many thousands of pounds of cold smoked sausage is made each winter when the temps plunge below freezing for a few days by folks who not only dont use any type of cure..but also aint never even heard of it. Hope this helps.

bigwheel




Cold smoking is done at temps of 90* or below... and if your smoking the sausage at 170-190 a cure should be used because of the risk of botulism......maybe you should buy a book.....

 

[bigwheel]

Whew you just banned cold smoking in Texas during the summer months. You sure it legal for yankees to issue them kinda edicts? Will assure you 90 aint a rational limit on cold smoking. I already own quite a few sausage books. Which one do you suggest I acquire next? Thanks.

bigwheel

 

[wittdog]

Well I dont think a person needs a steeken book to make sausage. Especially books wrote by dumb yankees from New Yawk with funny names. It aint nutting but meatloaf stuffed in a gut and the gut really aint all that essential to the undertaking. There are several websites which will take you from the ground up and splains it all. Start with this link:

http://home.pacbell.net/lpoli/

Real friendly an helpful fella over there named Len Poli. He is the undisputed guru of internet sausage making as far as I can tell.

bigwheel

[smilie=a_whyme.gif] [smilie=thanks.gif]

 

[bigwheel]

Well glad you got a chuckle and I do vaguely understand your logic in a roundabout way. The question I have for you is..how do you think I could confidently advise folks they did not need to buy sausage making books..unless I was familiar with the available books? Your a real silly boy..and you get sillier with each post.

bigwheel

 

[Nick Prochilo]

If it was me, I would have said that I already own a bunch of books on sausage making that I have read and they ain't worth a crap.

Now, me on the other hand have only purchased 2 books on sausage making and I plan on trying to make it one of these days with the help of the books because it's all that I have to go by at this point. From there I'll wing it!

 

[Cliff H.]

If it was me


Now, me on the other hand

Would the real Nick please stand up.


Sorry Nick I couldn't resist. Besides, If I hadn't Finney would have.