She should have gotten out of the car! - Page 3 - BBQ Central

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Old 06-13-2005, 04:09 PM   #41
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Hey 1044, thanks for doing the job you do, the way you do it. In this day and age, police don't get the respect that they deserve!It seems everything they do they get questioned on. It would make me second guess myself all the time, not something a cop should have to do! Like you said, the public can fight it in court!

I hope this isn't negative!
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Old 06-13-2005, 06:50 PM   #42
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Respect or not...1044 is right on. Do what the officer says and if there is a problem to dispute, do it in the courtroom! Really, that's the bottom line here...had she just hung up the phone and gotten out of the car this thread would not have spanned this many pages. She was wrong...really!!

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Old 06-13-2005, 09:28 PM   #43
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Lock err down... I'm bored.

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Old 06-14-2005, 09:35 AM   #44
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"How do you know if you are in custody?" The handcuffs are usually a dead giveaway!! But seriously....

If you ask the police officer if you are free to leave and his/her answer is anything but yes or absolutely, you are in custody.

Reading of Rights: When I retired in 2003 we were under no obligation to read a person his/her Miranda warnings until they became a "suspect" in a case and we were going to question that person regarding circumstances surrounding the case. This did not include general booking questions such as name, address, date of birth, etc. What is a "suspect?" A suspect is a person who the police have "focused" their attention and investigative efforts on in solving a particular crime. This is why the term "person of interest" has become so popular over the past few years when before they were always called suspects, now they are poi's. You can question a person of interest and not read them their Miranda or offer them an attorney.

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Old 06-14-2005, 11:47 AM   #45
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Originally Posted by 1044
Originally Posted by Kloset BBQR
I'm with you Susan. In this case, with this person, I think the use of a tazer was unwarranted based on the level of threat involved. Know we can't tell all what went on before the incident but using a tazer on someone for a seatbelt infraction is over the line. Looks like a lawsuit is pending. Tazers need to be treated as a potentially lethal weapon, which they are, potentially lethal that is.

Ask yourself if you'ld support this level of force on your daughter if she was in this situation. Let's says she scared, and calls you to ask for your help. In the meantime you got two officers screaming at her pointing a tazer at her head. She's frozen like a dear in the headlights. While your trying to tell her to cooperate with the police the officers zaps her, pulls her out of the car. Now with her arms momentarily paralyzed from the blast she hysterically screams at the officers that she can't put her arms behind her back, that she can't move her arms. So she gets zapped with another 50,000 volts. I think most of you then would be outraged. It's easy to say blast away at some soccer Mom that we don't know and can't see but I was a little bit sickened listening to her sobs of pain. I think a jury might also.

I always tell my son to cooperate with the police and the woman is at fault here for not doing so. I'm just questioning here the use of lethal force for a minor traffic infraction on a civilian that although she did not follow the officers orders was trying to seek advice from someone. I've seen officers be far more patient with high speed chase perps than I have with this officer and this perp. People aren't infallable and that goes for cops too. I'd like to see some sort of policy outlining when the use of this kind of force is justified. Now, I'll climb back down from my soapbox.

I intentionally used daughters instead of wives/husbands knowing I might get different answers with the wife or husband as an example.
Well, first off, you're under at least one misconception here. You assume the use of a tazer to be lethal force. The U.S. Supreme Court disagrees.

Another misconception many people has is about our rights. We, cops included, don't have what we would call full rights all the time. Example, DWI.

A person arrested for dwi has no right to speak to a lawyer until the book-in procedure is complete. The subject has no right to a lawyer during video taping and questioning during book-in. They don't have to answer any questions, but cannot have a lawyer yet, either. Again, ask the U.S.S.C.

When a lawful stop has been made, the officer can require all persons in the vehicle to get out, no option on the part of the occupants. If they refuse, force is justified, under law, to effect the removal. Once again, I refer you to the S.C.

At what point do you think a person has to obey the police in a situation like this? When they are good and ready? What about the people, and it will more often be a woman than a man, that say, "You're not arresting me"? Who is in control at that time? As a matter of law?

Like it or not, the woman was wrong. All she needed to do was step out of the car. At times like that, a ticket is the easy way out. She should argue in the courtroom, not on the street. She will always lose on the street. Always.

In Texas, and presumably other states, it is unlawful to disobey a cop even when you think or know a stop is unlawful. You can still be prosecuted for disobeying, even if the original charges are dropped.

She screwed up royally. She paid for it.

When a cop says, "Hang up the phone and step out of the car," hang up the phone and step out of the car. It really is a simple concept.

I'm not aware of the U.S. Supreme Court case that you cite but if you could provide the name of the case, I'd love to read it. Now the Court may have ruled on this issue but it doesn't change the fact that since June 2001 and the end of March 2005 there have been over 103 taser related deaths in the U.S. and Canada and over 13 in the first quarter of this year compared to 6 in the first quarter last year so there is an issue with lethality here. My issue isn't whether the officer has the right to use this force, my issue related to whether he used proper judgement in administering a potentially lethal force when:
1. The defendent did not appear to be resisting arrest
2. The defendent did not impose an immediate threat to the officer
3. The defendent did not attack the officer and
4. The officer administered a second shock after the defendent was already in custody and clearly not able to use her arms.

Now if I'm in any way mistake in the facts here and the officer was in any way attacked by the defendent, I'm fine with her tasing her. He just seemed a little quick on the trigger for the offense involved. A little patience may have allowed the situation to have been diffused without the use of this force and may have saved the officer from a lawsuit from this defendent.

Police and all officials need to realize that the rights they have been given come from the citizenry and are subject to revocation if these rights are abused.
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Old 06-14-2005, 12:53 PM   #46
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Man did I create a great post or what??? This is getting into the caliber of "Where's Susan" post! In the long run, nobody cared about either!
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Old 06-14-2005, 01:20 PM   #47
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The substance of the thread is still good...people are explaining themselves respectfully to others and are providing good info to justify their points and feeling...if you wish to continue, please do! =D>
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Old 06-14-2005, 02:27 PM   #48
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Well I'm proud to say I haven't read anything past first you guys too much to listen to what you have to say!!! :biggrin:
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Old 06-15-2005, 02:05 PM   #49
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As that Rodney the King dude would say after getting his settlement,
Cant we all just get along.

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