Kirk vs. Dr. BBQ Off Topic

[Kloset BBQR]

Captain, your'e right the BBQ world has changed dramatically in just the last 10 years and a lot of these guys owe where they are today to Chef Paul in my opinion who has been a tireless ambassador across the country and world in promoting BBQ. I've got nothing against Dr. BBQ I even have his book and I've taken a few tips from there. Hey anybody that has even won a competition or placed in the top 10 in one has my respect including Dr. BBQ.

I just didn't like getting threatened and banned from a forum (Ok, his forum his rules, I've heard that before) because of the moderators bias towards Dr. BBQ and against Kirk. That's where my resentment towards him comes in. And now it appears that at least one of his minions is continuing the attack. That is what I object to.

 

[Captain Morgan]

And now it appears that at least one of his minions is continuing the attack.

ROFL!

Jim Minion is just defending his friend..he's cooked with Lampe and says he's learned a lot from him. I guess we'd all jump at the chance to cook with Kirk, Lampe, and even Myron, who ain't the most likeable guy in the q world.

Not sure where the animus came from, but I've learned the best way to
decide among two different techniques is to try em both yourself.

 

[Kloset BBQR]

Captain,

Did you know that Myron Mixon teaches a class about 4 times a year down in Alabama. I'm going to take one next year. He teaches them in the Birmingham, AL area where his Jacks Old South Smokers are made (Britts BBQ who also manufactures the Jedmaster line). Let me know if you are interested in attending one and I'll post the schedule for next year when the dates are released.

Another thing talking about how the world of barbecue has changed. Have you noticed that most of the big named current superstars are from the Memphis In May Circuit (Lilly (Big Bob Gibson) and Mixon (Jack's Old South) come to mind first as does Mike Mills (Apple City Smokers) and Terry Black (Super Smokers). It's kind of like the old days of the NFL vs the AFL as to which league/circuit is superior. One thing I don't like about MIM is that it is only pork and I do believe that chicken and brisket have an important place in BBQ comps. Makes for interesting debate though.

 

[Kloset BBQR]

[quote="Kloset BBQR":13x3i3ji] And now it appears that at least one of his minions is continuing the attack.

ROFL!

Jim Minion is just defending his friend..he's cooked with Lampe and says he's learned a lot from him. I guess we'd all jump at the chance to cook with Kirk, Lampe, and even Myron, who ain't the most likeable guy in the q world.

Not sure where the animus came from, but I've learned the best way to
decide among two different techniques is to try em both yourself. [/quote:13x3i3ji]

I suspect the same and think the world of Jim who has always been very gracious and supportive of new BBQ'rs. It's kind of like politics and religion, sure to start a flame war as soon as you take sides but like you said you can learn from anyone but I do like to pay respect to the guys that blazed the trail early and have helped make the competitive circuit what it is today which is to say a lot of fun.

 

[Captain Morgan]

I'd like to see a combo of the KCBS/Mim rules. I'm not sure the site judging should determine how good the bbq is. I know I can't afford to
buy and haul around little plastic white fences and tables with crystal to impress the judges. Seems like it should be the meat alone. But anyway,
I'll probably never have the time to travel and compete with the big boys.
I'll be lucky to get 3 or 4 comps around my area in each year.

 

[Kloset BBQR]

Yeah I definitely agree with you on that. I couldn't afford to cook on the MIM cirucit. Those guys put an incredible amount of time and money into the booths and the showmanship. Although the MIM circuit does have a patio porkers division for the amateurs where you are judged strictly on the entry and no garnish allowed either (sauce served on the side is also acceptable).

Everyone should try to get to both the Memphis in May championship and the American Royal sometime in their life. It's a great show. Next year I plan on competitng at the American Royal Open. Won't have a snowballs chance in hell of placing but look forward to just being part of something great like that is what motivates me.

For me I'm sticking with KCBS. Three to 4 comps a year is probably about max for me too..........for now!

 

[Captain Morgan]

Win or lose, comps are a blast....those that never do them are missing a bunch of fun.

 

[jminion1]

I know Ray and Paul well, these are people that have been in my home, that I have cooked with, have assisted them give their classes, that I work with on the KCBS Board.

I know what they teach and know who gives up the real stuff. Paul doesn't teach what he uses while cooking at a competition. Ray gives you his techniques and if you use his rub it is also his recipe.

Myron I have a lot of respect for, I do have a problem with a technique he uses (leaves meat setting out for hours, more than 4 before cooking), as a Rep would have to disqualify that meat from a competition because it is the rules.

If you know how to trim a brisket or butt, cut up a chicken or St Louis cut a rack of ribs then you know what Paul is going to teach. If you want to see cooking techniques or work on fire control then find another class.

Ray doesn't need me to defend him, I'm telling you what I know, what I know first hand.

I can tell from posts that BBQmmm doesn't know what Ray is doing as a cook, I doubt he has spent any time with either of the these two. There is a lot of stuff on the internet that just isn't factual. If you don't think Paul is arrogant then you don't know him.

When it comes to banning folks from a forum, every owner has the right to run it way they want. The motivation of Ray Basso and Chris A are very different in the end the results can be the same, but they are coming from different places.

Jim

 

[jminion1]

Kloset BBQr
I cook three butts for most competitions, two I cook to pulled and the third for slicing. I normally place pulled and slices in the box, but it is based on how the product turns out. In a resent competition the pulled was great but the slicer was was outstanding. I ended up turning in only slices (unsauced), took second.

I have a plan but based on what I find at the end of the cook I adjust the turn-in to give the judge only choices I want them to try.

The use of organc pork makes using slices a very good choice.

Jim

 

[Kloset BBQR]

That's the smart way to do it Jim. Thanks again Jim for the advice. What temp to you cook the organic pork to when slicing? I've never had organic pork. Are they easy to find or do you need to special order. Do you cook them the same temps for pulling as you do non-organic pork? Thanks in advance for the answers.

As far as the celebrity BBQ'rs go I've never met one that hasn't had a tremendous ego or opinion of themselves. :grin:

 

[jminion1]

I cook it at the same pit temps, finish temps are 190 for pulled and 170 to 175 for sliced. We ahve three producers out here in the west, so it's not that hard for us. We are actively spreading the word on this product and have been able help these folks open some new markets.

It's the same for American Kobe beef product out here.

Not being a celebrity I can stay humble.

Jim

 

[Cookerme]

[quote="Greg Rempe":33b6ojnb]

Everyone is free to express their views here if done properly...I hope that BBQMMM is expressing his opinion and not taking up for another forum. That would be a little disheartning.

We went through the same thing in the "One Of These Days Thread". Pot Stirrer [-X[/quote:33b6ojnb]


Yeah and when all the facts are there for everyone in both posts to see,and can't be denied !they call it stirring the pot #-o [-X

 

[Guest]

[quote="Greg Rempe":2ttjmoqe]

Everyone is free to express their views here if done properly...I hope that BBQMMM is expressing his opinion and not taking up for another forum. That would be a little disheartning.

We went through the same thing in the "One Of These Days Thread". Pot Stirrer [-X

Yeah and when all the facts are there for everyone in both posts to see,and can't be denied !they call it stirring the pot #-o [-X[/quote:2ttjmoqe]
That's it! I'm deleting all my posts!!!

 

[LarryWolfe]

I would like to say I have never cooked with Dr. BBQ or Paul Kirk. I did just finish seven days with Steven Raichlin at the BBQ U Classes we have. THe classes we teach are for people who hardly know how to grill up to some who compete. He has techniques that work extremly well for his target market.
I work in a kitchen with 150 chefs. Some have worked there for 50 years others one day. You can always learn something from anyone as long as you are open minded. It may be a new technique or you learn a new way to explain a technique you know. I am lucky that I work in a kitchen that has apprentices, because we are always in a learning environment. Either as the instructors or the students.
I know when I started competing evryone was like Oh your a professional Chef you shoud do great. I never took a class at The Culinary Instititue Of America in BBQ during my two years there. EVERYTHING I know about BBQ is because I asked questions and someone shared the way they do it. just my thoughts

Amen Hoss!!! Once you think you know it all, NO MATTER WHO YOU ARE, you've lost the passion!! Good post!!!

 

[Cookerme]

I can tell from posts that BBQmmm doesn't know what Ray is doing as a cook, I doubt he has spent any time with either of the these two. There is a lot of stuff on the internet that just isn't factual. If you don't think Paul is arrogant then you don't know him.

Jim

Yeah i havn't spent time with either,if i could it would definitely be with someone who spent his own money on his own cooker and taught many future cooks to become World champions,that be Paul Kirk,as opposed to running around with whatever somebody pays him to cook on,and proclaiming this thing as the greatest machine known to man.Yeah i remember kloset posting his class on the KC BBQ forum and his being barred.I also know that whenever someone posts a question about a P.K class,there's one of you 2 posting "This is better" with a link to a Dr BBQ class.Well i for one seen the Dr cook and i'm not impressed with his cooking.The man i like,seems pretty cool,the cooking i'll pass!

 

[jminion1]

I can tell from posts that BBQmmm doesn't know what Ray is doing as a cook, I doubt he has spent any time with either of the these two. There is a lot of stuff on the internet that just isn't factual. If you don't think Paul is arrogant then you don't know him.

Jim

Yeah i havn't spent time with either,if i could it would definitely be with someone who spent his own money on his own cooker and taught many future cooks to become World champions,that be Paul Kirk,as opposed to running around with whatever somebody pays him to cook on,and proclaiming this thing as the greatest machine known to man.Yeah i remember kloset posting his class on the KC BBQ forum and his being barred.I also know that whenever someone posts a question about a P.K class,there's one of you 2 posting "This is better" with a link to a Dr BBQ class.Well i for one seen the Dr cook and i'm not impressed with his cooking.The man i like,seems pretty cool,the cooking i'll pass!

So let's get this right, you don't know either one of them. The fact that one represents a cooker manufacture is somehow wrong, to make a living at BBQ is somehow wrong.

You haven't spent any time with either one but you've seen how Ray cook's and your not impressed. Which is it, you haven't spent any time with either or you have? You just know?

When I give an opinion it's because I've got first hand knowledge, if I did not know what was being taught I would not make the comparison, that is why I use my name not a handle when I post.

Your opinion may be more creditable if your willing to put your name on it or at least have taken one of the two classes.

Jim

 

[Cookerme]

Yeah i need a class,goodnight.

 

[jminion1]

Yeah i need a class,goodnight.

To have such a strong opinion maybe knowing what your talking about might help. [-X

Jim

 

[Cookerme]

Load up the Kingsford boys,add a log and go to sleep.

 

[LarryWolfe]

When I give an opinion it's because I've got first hand knowledge, if I did not know what was being taught I would not make the comparison, that is why I use my name not a handle when I post.

Jim

Me too Jim! Everyone will know my name when I'm done!! 8-[ :evillaugh: