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-   -   if you HAD to finish a butt in the oven/gas grill...... (http://www.bbq-4-u.com/forum/f9/if-you-had-to-finish-a-butt-in-the-oven-gas-grill-13728.html)

gordon 08-20-2008 03:32 PM

if you HAD to finish a butt in the oven/gas grill......
 
.....at what point would you move it? first of all I hope this doesn't have to happen but given my track record with butts (see my old post if you want to hear about a 24 hour butt) I may have to do this. I'm doing a couple butts starting friday night and have to get all the ribs on by noon saturday. even with the mods my chargriller can be a pain the you know what! looking back I wish I got a WSM.

anyway so if you HAD to move to the oven or gas grill when would you do it? after the plateau or during it? I assume after and I assume it won't matter that much as it'll still be cooking low and slow and the smoke flavor will be there.

monty3777 08-20-2008 03:35 PM

I don't think it matters much. Fact is that the temps will be the same (I'm assuming, here) in the oven and smoker so there is really nothing to worry about as far as temps.

The issue, as I can see it, is the development of bark and smoke penetration. I guess I'd wait as long as you can and then put it in the oven with no regrets when you have to. I have finished butts and briskets in a roaster and loved the results

gordon 08-20-2008 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by monty3777
I don't think it matters much. Fact is that the temps will be the same (I'm assuming, here) in the oven and smoker so there is really nothing to worry about as far as temps.

The issue, as I can see it, is the development of bark and smoke penetration. I guess I'd wait as long as you can and then put it in the oven with no regrets when you have to. I have finished butts and briskets in a roaster and loved the results


I should have made that clear. I will wait as long as I can to ensure a good bark and the smoke penetration should be long over.

gordon 08-20-2008 03:44 PM

one more thing. I assume my mavrick thermometer will be ok in the oven as long as it's not too close to the heat source?

Larry Wolfe 08-20-2008 06:01 PM

Re: if you HAD to finish a butt in the oven/gas grill......
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by gordon
.....at what point would you move it? first of all I hope this doesn't have to happen but given my track record with butts (see my old post if you want to hear about a 24 hour butt) I may have to do this. I'm doing a couple butts starting friday night and have to get all the ribs on by noon saturday. even with the mods my chargriller can be a pain the you know what! looking back I wish I got a WSM.

anyway so if you HAD to move to the oven or gas grill when would you do it? after the plateau or during it? I assume after and I assume it won't matter that much as it'll still be cooking low and slow and the smoke flavor will be there.

You can certainly finish the butts in the oven. However if you know you're going to be short on time you can just cook the butts at a higher temp from the get go, say 275-300 with the exact same results just with less cooking time.

Nick Prochilo 08-20-2008 10:16 PM

What temp are you cooking in the smoker at? What temp would you finish in the oven at? Why not just crank the smoker to the oven temp if your in a rush?

gordon 08-20-2008 11:12 PM

I try to keep the smoker around 225-250 at the most. I was thinking 275-300 to finish in the oven if needed. as far as doing them at a higher temp from the get go that defeats the low and slow ;)

I've cranked the temp in the smoker up once it hits the plateau but we know at the point it doesn't help. maybe I'll try 275 or so from the start but I'm just worried that's too hot for good pulled pork.

Larry Wolfe 08-21-2008 06:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gordon
I try to keep the smoker around 225-250 at the most. I was thinking 275-300 to finish in the oven if needed. as far as doing them at a higher temp from the get go that defeats the low and slow ;)

I've cranked the temp in the smoker up once it hits the plateau but we know at the point it doesn't help. maybe I'll try 275 or so from the start but I'm just worried that's too hot for good pulled pork.

What do you think cranking the 'oven' up to finish them does??? :roll:

You can do butts at higher temps from beginning to end and won't be able to tell a bit of difference than if you cooked them twice as long at lower temps.

wittdog 08-21-2008 08:33 AM

They will stop taking on smoke somewhere around 135-140* internal temp...

monty3777 08-21-2008 08:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Larry Wolfe
Quote:

Originally Posted by gordon
I try to keep the smoker around 225-250 at the most. I was thinking 275-300 to finish in the oven if needed. as far as doing them at a higher temp from the get go that defeats the low and slow ;)

I've cranked the temp in the smoker up once it hits the plateau but we know at the point it doesn't help. maybe I'll try 275 or so from the start but I'm just worried that's too hot for good pulled pork.

What do you think cranking the 'oven' up to finish them does??? :roll:

You can do butts at higher temps from beginning to end and won't be able to tell a bit of difference than if you cooked them twice as long at lower temps.

Larry,
I've never tried them at anything higher than 250. How long is the cook at 300?

Woodman 08-21-2008 09:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wittdog
They will stop taking on smoke somewhere around 135-140* internal temp...

Oy! here we go again. The meat will "take on smoke" flavor[b] the entire time it is exposed to smoke. The smoke ring (which has no apparent flavor,) stops forming at the 140-145 degree range. I ate at a place in Shelby , NC called Alston Bridges BBQ one time years ago, and I saw the pitmaster out back and asked him what time they came in. He said that the pit was gas and set on a timer to start at 3:00 am. I asked how they got the woodsmoke on it and he said that they started throwing wood in at about 11:00 am!!! Now that explained why their BBQ tasted smokey, but had no real pronounced "smoke ring." I am not certain how they kept the meat they loaded in the night before from going bad, perhaps they had a refrigeration unit in the thing on a timer as well, but they put the smoke in at the BACK END of the cook! If the smoke ring is not important to you, I see no reason why you couldn't START the meat in the oven, and move it to the pit to finish and add some smoke flavor.
WM

wittdog 08-21-2008 09:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Woodman
Quote:

Originally Posted by wittdog
They will stop taking on smoke somewhere around 135-140* internal temp...

Oy! here we go again. The meat will "take on smoke" flavor[b] the entire time it is exposed to smoke. The smoke ring (which has no apparent flavor,) stops forming at the 140-145 degree range. I ate at a place in Shelby , NC called Alston Bridges BBQ one time years ago, and I saw the pitmaster out back and asked him what time they came in. He said that the pit was gas and set on a timer to start at 3:00 am. I asked how they got the woodsmoke on it and he said that they started throwing wood in at about 11:00 am!!! Now that explained why their BBQ tasted smokey, but had no real pronounced "smoke ring." I am not certain how they kept the meat they loaded in the night before from going bad, perhaps they had a refrigeration unit in the thing on a timer as well, but they put the smoke in at the BACK END of the cook! If the smoke ring is not important to you, I see no reason why you couldn't START the meat in the oven, and move it to the pit to finish and add some smoke flavor.
WM

To each there own...

Larry Wolfe 08-21-2008 09:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by monty3777
Quote:

Originally Posted by Larry Wolfe
Quote:

Originally Posted by gordon
I try to keep the smoker around 225-250 at the most. I was thinking 275-300 to finish in the oven if needed. as far as doing them at a higher temp from the get go that defeats the low and slow ;)

I've cranked the temp in the smoker up once it hits the plateau but we know at the point it doesn't help. maybe I'll try 275 or so from the start but I'm just worried that's too hot for good pulled pork.

What do you think cranking the 'oven' up to finish them does??? :roll:

You can do butts at higher temps from beginning to end and won't be able to tell a bit of difference than if you cooked them twice as long at lower temps.

Larry,
I've never tried them at anything higher than 250. How long is the cook at 300?

Timing will obviously vary, but will greatly be decreased. I'd plan on minimally knocking off 3-4 hours of the total cook time.

CarolinaQue 08-21-2008 10:50 AM

As to the original question, once the meat hits about 160* to 165* the bark should be well enough formed that the smoke won't penetrate much more. I've had to put meat in the oven before because of weather and it's always come out fine. Just wrap it in foil and cook as normal. You can also bump up the temp once wrapped if need be for tim reasons. You'll loose some bark texture, but the meat will be fine.

As far as cooking temp, I personally feel that 225* is a little to low for me and always cook between 250* and 275*. A good rule of thumb is to use at temp that cooks the meat at 1 hour per pound. It hasn't failed me yet!

Tim

Larry Wolfe 08-21-2008 10:56 AM

The meat will take on as much smoke as you give it for the entire cook regardless of the meat temp. This is why you can have BBQ that is oversmoked, if the meat stopped taking on smoke you would never have oversmoked BBQ. The smoke ring stops forming around 140.

wittdog 08-21-2008 11:59 AM

Or maybe it tastes oversmoked because when the smokering stops forming the smoke just sitts on the outside of the meat and doesn't penetrate..

Larry Wolfe 08-21-2008 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Larry Wolfe
The meat will take on as much smoke as you give it for the entire cook regardless of the meat temp. This is why you can have BBQ that is oversmoked, if the meat stopped taking on smoke you would never have oversmoked BBQ. The smoke ring stops forming around 140.

Quote:

Originally Posted by wittdog
Or maybe it tastes oversmoked because when the smokering stops forming the smoke just sitts on the outside of the meat and doesn't penetrate..

Where in my post did I state the smoke 'penetrated' the meat?

wittdog 08-21-2008 12:18 PM

[quote=Larry Wolfe]
Quote:

Originally Posted by "Larry Wolfe":31qbe7iy
The meat will take on as much smoke as you give it for the entire cook regardless of the meat temp. This is why you can have BBQ that is oversmoked, if the meat stopped taking on smoke you would never have oversmoked BBQ. The smoke ring stops forming around 140.

Quote:

Originally Posted by wittdog
Or maybe it tastes oversmoked because when the smokering stops forming the smoke just sitts on the outside of the meat and doesn't penetrate..

Where in my post did I state the smoke 'penetrated' the meat?[/quote:31qbe7iy]

Gee Larry I don't see that anywhere in your post...and I don't recall quoting you either.....these are just my observations....(I can see where this is going......heaven forbid someone have a different viewpoint) :lol:

Woodman 08-21-2008 12:57 PM

THE SMOKE DOES NOT PENETRATE THE MEAT!!!!!!!!!! It is well documented that the smoke ring is a "chemical reaction" between the smoke and the surface of the meat. It is not really open to debate!!!! The particulates in the smoke come to "rest" on the surface of the meat giving it the smokey flavor. This argument is akin to many folks assertion that you will "boil all the fat out of the brisket" if you cook it too hot (pit temp.) As long as the internal temp of the meat stays below the 300-400 degree boiling point of beef tallow, how is that gonna happen? IT IS ,IN EFFECT, AN OLD WIVE'S TALE!!!!! Your friend, Woodman

wittdog 08-21-2008 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Woodman
THE SMOKE DOES NOT PENETRATE THE MEAT!!!!!!!!!! It is well documented that the smoke ring is a "chemical reaction" between the smoke and the surface of the meat. It is not really open to debate!!!! The particulates in the smoke come to "rest" on the surface of the meat giving it the smokey flavor. This argument is akin to many folks assertion that you will "boil all the fat out of the brisket" if you cook it too hot (pit temp.) As long as the internal temp of the meat stays below the 300-400 degree boiling point of beef tallow, how is that gonna happen? IT IS ,IN EFFECT, AN OLD WIVE'S TALE!!!!! Your friend, Woodman

Sorry woodman you made one of my points...and fat begins to render at 180-190*.....


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