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Old 11-29-2006, 02:09 PM   #21
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[quote=Larry Wolfe]
Quote:
Originally Posted by "Uncle Al":1jj38ywx
I am with Brian on this one being like the brisket thing, I will add this
there is no way that fat melts on any piece of meat and penetrates into the meat. It only renders and comes out. The longer you cook it the drier it gets. You could boil a hunk of meat in oil and it won't penetrate, its called deep fat frying.

I have cooked lots of ribs and don't recall a layer of fat on the bones. Can someone draw me a picture of the fat that collects in the curve of the bones and then somehow dribbles somewhere and adds flavor to the ribs.

I don't want to start a "fat up or down war" here, I just want an explanation.

Al
Here's my view, right or wrong, it's just the way I see it and believe how it happens.

A piece of meat is not a solid compound. It is strands of muscles that are connected by tissue and fat. When meat of any kind is cooked, especially at low temperatures, the internal and external fat melt in between the strands of muscles. Thus, "penetrating" in between the strands of muscle as the internal fat renders and the connective tissue breaks down. I believe cooking a brisket fat side up does indeed baste the outside of the roast as well as internally.

In BigWheels defense, there is a nominal amount of fat on the underside of the ribs. The "liquid" he's referring to is probably both rendered fat as well as condensation in his cooker. Both of which I agree would be beneficial to the ribs.

Just my .02.[/quote:1jj38ywx]

You gotta step away from the Bud and try that one again bud. You lost me at internal/external strands "penetrating"...How can something penetrate and render at the same time?

Good Q!

Jack
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Old 11-29-2006, 02:15 PM   #22
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[quote=Jack W.]
Quote:
Originally Posted by "Larry Wolfe":3vxhmtb5
Here's my view, right or wrong, it's just the way I see it and believe how it happens.

A piece of meat is not a solid compound. It is strands of muscles that are connected by tissue and fat. When meat of any kind is cooked, especially at low temperatures, the internal and external fat melt in between the strands of muscles. Thus, "penetrating" in between the strands of muscle as the internal fat renders and the connective tissue breaks down. I believe cooking a brisket fat side up does indeed baste the outside of the roast as well as internally.

In BigWheels defense, there is a nominal amount of fat on the underside of the ribs. The "liquid" he's referring to is probably both rendered fat as well as condensation in his cooker. Both of which I agree would be beneficial to the ribs.

Just my .02.
You gotta step away from the Bud and try that one again bud. You lost me at internal/external strands "penetrating"...How can something penetrate and render at the same time?

Good Q!

Jack[/quote:3vxhmtb5]

You have internal fat as well as external fat, right? There is a void left between the layers/strands of meat once the internal fat renders. Which leaves an opening for the external layer of fat to render/flow through.
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Old 11-29-2006, 03:03 PM   #23
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I cook in an upright configuration heat coming up from the bottom usually with a water pan. Its basically a big rectanular shaped WSM. Meat anywhere from 24 to 36" above the fire.

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What are you cooking on BW? My offset it's hotter above the grate than right below it
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Old 11-29-2006, 03:12 PM   #24
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I'm sure the debate will roll on. If anyone is interested, the science is well documented in Harold McGee's "On Food and Cooking" A Science and Lore of the Kitchen. ISBN: 0684800012 . If it's not in your collection or on your Christmas list, your missing one of the bibles of the kitchen.

IMHO the best that can be said for surface fat rendering at low temps is that it provides cooling action to help prevent fast constriction of the fibers. The internal "succulence" of barbecued meats comes from the denaturing of collegen. The "trick" is to get the meat off of the heat source before all the denatured collegen is pushed out of the muscle.

That's all I've got for this part of the thread. Maybe we should debate this under it's own heading.

Good Q!

Jack
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Old 11-29-2006, 03:36 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack W.
I'm sure the debate will roll on. If anyone is interested, the science is well documented in Harold McGee's "On Food and Cooking" A Science and Lore of the Kitchen. ISBN: 0684800012 . If it's not in your collection or on your Christmas list, your missing one of the bibles of the kitchen.

IMHO the best that can be said for surface fat rendering at low temps is that it provides cooling action to help prevent fast constriction of the fibers. The internal "succulence" of barbecued meats comes from the denaturing of collegen. The "trick" is to get the meat off of the heat source before all the denatured collegen is pushed out of the muscle.

That's all I've got for this part of the thread. Maybe we should debate this under it's own heading.

Good Q!

Jack
Ooohhh That sounds key!
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Old 11-29-2006, 04:20 PM   #26
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I think everybody is looking way to hard into this. Cook them how you feel like cooking them and don't worry how others do it! I do my ribs in a rack and they come out exactly like me and my family like them.
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Old 11-29-2006, 04:26 PM   #27
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A professional Chef working part time at a BBQ place using Southern Prides related how the help had put a couple of cases of BB's in upside down. When he checked a couple of hours later and discovered them he noticed a pool of liquid in the concave surface and said "what the hell" and left them as is. They came out better then ever for whatever reason, that's the way they continued to do them. When he told us about it I decided to give it a try, it works so I too continue to do them that way.
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Old 11-29-2006, 05:13 PM   #28
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[quote=brian j]
Quote:
Originally Posted by "Larry Wolfe":31b0gtbk
You have internal fat as well as external fat, right? There is a void left between the layers/strands of meat once the internal fat renders. Which leaves an opening for the external layer of fat to render/flow through.
i'm sorry larry but i don't believe the whole fat penetrating meat thing. juiciness comes from fat and connective tissue between the meat breaking down not from rendered fat flowing though the space between meat strands. also as meat heats up the cells constrict driving moisture out as a opposed to letting moisture in. that's why you rest meats after they cook.[/quote:31b0gtbk]

Just saying the way I believe it happens. Not saying it's right or wrong, just the way I believe it happens. From my point of view it makes sense to me.
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Old 11-29-2006, 06:53 PM   #29
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Well it made sense to me. In Texas we call it bafflin em with bullshit Nice try.

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Old 11-29-2006, 07:49 PM   #30
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[quote=Larry Wolfe][quote="brian j":1uduv5os]
Quote:
Originally Posted by "Larry Wolfe":1uduv5os
You have internal fat as well as external fat, right? There is a void left between the layers/strands of meat once the internal fat renders. Which leaves an opening for the external layer of fat to render/flow through.
i'm sorry larry but i don't believe the whole fat penetrating meat thing. juiciness comes from fat and connective tissue between the meat breaking down not from rendered fat flowing though the space between meat strands. also as meat heats up the cells constrict driving moisture out as a opposed to letting moisture in. that's why you rest meats after they cook.[/quote:1uduv5os]

Just saying the way I believe it happens. Not saying it's right or wrong, just the way I believe it happens. From my point of view it makes sense to me.[/quote:1uduv5os]

And that's all that matters!
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