Wicked ribs

[Jack W.]

[quote="Uncle Al":1jj38ywx]I am with Brian on this one being like the brisket thing, I will add this
there is no way that fat melts on any piece of meat and penetrates into the meat. It only renders and comes out. The longer you cook it the drier it gets. You could boil a hunk of meat in oil and it won't penetrate, its called deep fat frying.

I have cooked lots of ribs and don't recall a layer of fat on the bones. Can someone draw me a picture of the fat that collects in the curve of the bones and then somehow dribbles somewhere and adds flavor to the ribs.

I don't want to start a "fat up or down war" here, I just want an explanation.

Al

Here's my view, right or wrong, it's just the way I see it and believe how it happens.

A piece of meat is not a solid compound. It is strands of muscles that are connected by tissue and fat. When meat of any kind is cooked, especially at low temperatures, the internal and external fat melt in between the strands of muscles. Thus, "penetrating" in between the strands of muscle as the internal fat renders and the connective tissue breaks down. I believe cooking a brisket fat side up does indeed baste the outside of the roast as well as internally.

In BigWheels defense, there is a nominal amount of fat on the underside of the ribs. The "liquid" he's referring to is probably both rendered fat as well as condensation in his cooker. Both of which I agree would be beneficial to the ribs.

Just my .02.[/quote:1jj38ywx]

You gotta step away from the Bud and try that one again bud. You lost me at internal/external strands "penetrating"...How can something penetrate and render at the same time?

Good Q!

Jack

 

[LarryWolfe]

[quote="Larry Wolfe":3vxhmtb5]
Here's my view, right or wrong, it's just the way I see it and believe how it happens.

A piece of meat is not a solid compound. It is strands of muscles that are connected by tissue and fat. When meat of any kind is cooked, especially at low temperatures, the internal and external fat melt in between the strands of muscles. Thus, "penetrating" in between the strands of muscle as the internal fat renders and the connective tissue breaks down. I believe cooking a brisket fat side up does indeed baste the outside of the roast as well as internally.

In BigWheels defense, there is a nominal amount of fat on the underside of the ribs. The "liquid" he's referring to is probably both rendered fat as well as condensation in his cooker. Both of which I agree would be beneficial to the ribs.

Just my .02.

You gotta step away from the Bud and try that one again bud. You lost me at internal/external strands "penetrating"...How can something penetrate and render at the same time?

Good Q!

Jack[/quote:3vxhmtb5]

You have internal fat as well as external fat, right? There is a void left between the layers/strands of meat once the internal fat renders. Which leaves an opening for the external layer of fat to render/flow through.

 

[bigwheel]

I cook in an upright configuration heat coming up from the bottom usually with a water pan. Its basically a big rectanular shaped WSM. Meat anywhere from 24 to 36" above the fire.

bigwheel

What are you cooking on BW? My offset it's hotter above the grate than right below it

 

[Jack W.]

I'm sure the debate will roll on. If anyone is interested, the science is well documented in Harold McGee's "On Food and Cooking" A Science and Lore of the Kitchen. ISBN: 0684800012 . If it's not in your collection or on your Christmas list, your missing one of the bibles of the kitchen.

IMHO the best that can be said for surface fat rendering at low temps is that it provides cooling action to help prevent fast constriction of the fibers. The internal "succulence" of barbecued meats comes from the denaturing of collegen. The "trick" is to get the meat off of the heat source before all the denatured collegen is pushed out of the muscle.

That's all I've got for this part of the thread. Maybe we should debate this under it's own heading. 8)

Good Q!

Jack

 

[ScottyDaQ]

I'm sure the debate will roll on. If anyone is interested, the science is well documented in Harold McGee's "On Food and Cooking" A Science and Lore of the Kitchen. ISBN: 0684800012 . If it's not in your collection or on your Christmas list, your missing one of the bibles of the kitchen.

IMHO the best that can be said for surface fat rendering at low temps is that it provides cooling action to help prevent fast constriction of the fibers. The internal "succulence" of barbecued meats comes from the denaturing of collegen. The "trick" is to get the meat off of the heat source before all the denatured collegen is pushed out of the muscle.

That's all I've got for this part of the thread. Maybe we should debate this under it's own heading. 8)

Good Q!

Jack

Ooohhh That sounds key!

 

[Nick Prochilo]

I think everybody is looking way to hard into this. Cook them how you feel like cooking them and don't worry how others do it! I do my ribs in a rack and they come out exactly like me and my family like them.

 

[john a]

A professional Chef working part time at a BBQ place using Southern Prides related how the help had put a couple of cases of BB's in upside down. When he checked a couple of hours later and discovered them he noticed a pool of liquid in the concave surface and said "what the hell" and left them as is. They came out better then ever for whatever reason, that's the way they continued to do them. When he told us about it I decided to give it a try, it works so I too continue to do them that way. :?

 

[LarryWolfe]

[quote="Larry Wolfe":31b0gtbk]You have internal fat as well as external fat, right? There is a void left between the layers/strands of meat once the internal fat renders. Which leaves an opening for the external layer of fat to render/flow through.

i'm sorry larry but i don't believe the whole fat penetrating meat thing. juiciness comes from fat and connective tissue between the meat breaking down not from rendered fat flowing though the space between meat strands. also as meat heats up the cells constrict driving moisture out as a opposed to letting moisture in. that's why you rest meats after they cook.[/quote:31b0gtbk]

Just saying the way I believe it happens. Not saying it's right or wrong, just the way I believe it happens. From my point of view it makes sense to me.

 

[bigwheel]

Well it made sense to me. In Texas we call it bafflin em with ******** Nice try.

bigwheel

 

[Nick Prochilo]

[quote="brian j":1uduv5os][quote="Larry Wolfe":1uduv5os]You have internal fat as well as external fat, right? There is a void left between the layers/strands of meat once the internal fat renders. Which leaves an opening for the external layer of fat to render/flow through.

i'm sorry larry but i don't believe the whole fat penetrating meat thing. juiciness comes from fat and connective tissue between the meat breaking down not from rendered fat flowing though the space between meat strands. also as meat heats up the cells constrict driving moisture out as a opposed to letting moisture in. that's why you rest meats after they cook.[/quote:1uduv5os]

Just saying the way I believe it happens. Not saying it's right or wrong, just the way I believe it happens. From my point of view it makes sense to me.[/quote:1uduv5os]

And that's all that matters!

 

[Griff]

I usually cook my ribs in a rack with the bones vertical. Consequently, I have nothing to add to this discussion.

Griff

 

[Cliff H.]

I like ribs. [smilie=a_goodjob.gif]

 

[LarryWolfe]

I usually cook my ribs in a rack with the bones vertical. Consequently, I have nothing to add to this discussion.

Griff

I too cook my ribs vertical and love the way they come out. I was more or less just giving my two cents towards Al's request for an explanation towards rendering fat.

I'm just gonna smoke foie gras for now one, that way it doesn't really matter how you put it on the smoker!

 

[john a]

Hey Larry,

"I'm just gonna smoke foie gras for now one, that way it doesn't really matter how you put it on the smoker! "

Do you grow your own?

 

[Uncle Al]

I usually cook my ribs in a rack with the bones vertical. Consequently, I have nothing to add to this discussion.

Griff

I too cook my ribs vertical and love the way they come out. I was more or less just giving my two cents towards Al's request for an explanation towards rendering fat.

I'm just gonna smoke foie gras for now one, that way it doesn't really matter how you put it on the smoker!

Larry,

Thanks for the taking time to try to explain. However I was being sarcastic.

Being a Biomedical research engineer by trade I have pretty good handle on the cellular science aspect of cooking meats etc. That being said, there is a scientific explanation to all aspects of cooking which is different from opinions as to what happens to food when it's cooked. so when I here someone say to cook meat in a certain way so that such and such will happen, and I know for a scientific fact that what they are saying is incorrect, I ask for an explanation as to how they arrived at their conclusion. And that's enough on this subject.

Al

 

[LarryWolfe]

Larry,

Thanks for the taking time to try to explain. However I was being sarcastic.

Being a Biomedical research engineer by trade I have pretty good handle on the cellular science aspect of cooking meats etc. That being said, there is a scientific explanation to all aspects of cooking which is different from opinions as to what happens to food when it's cooked. so when I here someone say to cook meat in a certain way so that such and such will happen, and I know for a scientific fact that what they are saying is incorrect, I ask for an explanation as to how they arrived at their conclusion. And that's enough on this subject.

Al

Sorry Al, that I wasted your time reading my undereducated worthless post. I didn't realize our education levels/professions/knowledge, etc. were so vastly different. With your knowledge, you should have a scientific search website called AskAl.com.

You up for a drink?.......my treat!

 

[Uncle Al]

Hey that's a good idea. The drink of course. Hey I was not demeaning your response or trying to sound like a smarty pants, sorry if I came off that way. But being a scientist makes me ask questions when I hear something that goes against my understanding of how things work.

Sorry

Al

 

[Bruce B]

 

[Uncle Al]

Popcorn not required

Al

 

[bigwheel]

Well I aint gonna be convinced your really an injuneer till I see a pitcher of your train. Color me skeptical if you will. Now I give you the roots of this bone up bizness as good as I know it. Many moons ago a fella named Rock McNeilly coined a phrase of the "swim cap" method and started out with split chicken cooked skin side down. He say the top of the split chicken will form a cup to hold juice (I supposed whut has been cooked out of the meat) and it will gather in the little swim cap and will eventually ooze its was back into the meat. Then I taught Emeril how to do it using whole chickens..then this hillybilly from Floriddy named the Fat Man figgered out it works on ribs too. Not counting the cooking gravity makes it come back to the place from which it cometh. Thats all I know. Surely they had gravity back in injuneer school huh? Thanks.

bigwheel