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Old 06-12-2005, 10:47 AM   #1
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Quantum Physics and Meat

Some how or another I get the feeling that we all think that meat is some kind of translucent and semi pourous matter. Time for some mind expanding hammock time gang. Pull out what ever material you use to loosen up the neurons and set a spell.

When you cook meats, the fat and water/blood render from the inside out. That's just a fact of osmosis. Thats why the whole conversation on rubs and marinades is for fun not fact. Most of your outside rub will end up in your grease bucket. If you use a mop even more rub ends up in the bottom of the bucket. If your lucky you'll get some to stick and flavor your bark, but I have never tasted any rub in the inside of a boston butt or brisket, that wasn't mixed in while we pulled it. The only way to impart any flavor rather than the natural flavor of the beast is to inject it into the muscle or cook with wood or wood products. Low and slow keeps the juices and fats from rendering too fast leaving your meat moist and flavorful. If you have problems with meat drying out, it's either too lean to start with or you cooked it too fast and the juice ended up in the bucket or evaporating into your enviornment. Even smoke flavor is mixed into the final product as we process our finished products.

I use rubs, marinades and such all the time. Yes, meat is a semi pourous material and if you let it sit with a rub or in a brine or marinade long enough, there will be an exchange. However, to believe that fat will pass through your pourous material while osmosis is pushing the other way, just dosen't make sense to me.


Good Q!

Jack
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Old 06-12-2005, 10:52 AM   #2
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so you're saying a fat cap won't trickle through the meat?
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Old 06-12-2005, 10:54 AM   #3
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That boy's a thinker. He must have already grad-gee-ated the 6th grade.
Do some goes-inta's for us Jack.

of course I'm just joking. I hope I know part of what you know one day.
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Old 06-12-2005, 10:56 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Morgan
so you're saying a fat cap won't trickle through the meat?
This is off topic, but...
Cappie, I've been missing your "SO you're saying" questions.
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Old 06-12-2005, 10:58 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Morgan
so you're saying a fat cap won't trickle through the meat?
How could it get through???

Good Q!

Jack
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Old 06-12-2005, 11:00 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Finney
That boy's a thinker. He must have already grad-gee-ated the 6th grade.
Do some goes-inta's for us Jack.

of course I'm just joking. I hope I know part of what you know one day.
I do some of my best cookin in the hammock. Expansion is my forte'

1 lb of brisket goes inta my belly with 12 oz of beer....
=D>
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Old 06-12-2005, 11:08 AM   #7
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Jack, what do you normally inject your butts with? Oh I hope it's not one of those top secrets!
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Old 06-12-2005, 11:10 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by Susan Z
Brine is the one thing that actually DOES penetrate the meat in an osmotic exchange. And the salt in the brine makes the meat suck up even MORE brine, and that way the salt is actually drawn into the meat and seasons it throughout.
True, Brining is a raw process that involves a chemically induced exchange based on salt and sugar content. Spice flavor takes a ride in with the salt. There are dry cures as well. Both involve raw materials.

Good Q!

Jack
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Old 06-12-2005, 11:12 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick Prochilo
Jack, what do you normally inject your butts with? Oh I hope it's not one of those top secrets!
Must have been.
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Old 06-12-2005, 11:19 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick Prochilo
Jack, what do you normally inject your butts with? Oh I hope it's not one of those top secrets!
Yes, brisket too.

For pork, start with Chris Lillys injection over at Big Bob Gibson's. It seems to be public knowledge and is very good. Myron just posted some kind of marinade on the food network that looked pretty good too. I tweak everything to my personal taste. Search the Food network or Basso's list. You're on your own for brisket. Beef base is a good place to start though. Texans like Dr. Pepper and it is good stuff in and on brisket. So is cherry coke. 8-[

Good Q!

Jack
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Old 06-12-2005, 11:22 AM   #11
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Okay, so I'm gonna take my "Qing" to the next level! Thanks Jack.
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Old 06-13-2005, 04:04 PM   #12
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Re: Quantum Physics and Meat

Quote:
Originally Posted by GlennR
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack W.
Thats why the whole conversation on rubs and marinades is for fun not fact.
Jack
Jack-

I see your point with regard to fat cap and brisket. However, if the above statement were true I could cook a rubbed/marinated boston butt next to a non rubbed/marinated boston butt and not tell the difference. Science is great but I'm very confident we could both taste the difference. Hope I haven't missed or mistaken your point.

Glenn
My answer then would probably be IMHO yes. For rubs I'll bet you get maybe a 1/4 inch of spice penetration then the rest is slow roasted pork. You'll get a better exchange with marinade depending on the length of time in the drink.

To be clear about the point. There is alot of discussion about fat caps up or down. The old guys will tell you that the fat cap goes up because the fat will render down into the pork or brisket keeping it mosit and carry your rub or marinade with it. I'm out of the box saying that just ain't so. The outside rub and marinade flavors will get mixed in upon processing. I'm not saying don't rub and marinate. I'm saying don't bet the farm that fat cap makes a whole heck of alot of difference to moist and flavorful meat. Marbeling, Yes. Fat cap I question.

To further the point, I always trim fat caps to 1/4 in on briskets and completly off of Boston butts. I use fat caps on brisket as a heat shield.

The discussion really gets interesting when you talk about flipping vs. not flipping a whole hog.

Good Q!

Jack
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Old 06-13-2005, 04:56 PM   #13
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I flipped a whole hog one time that was past half way done. Thankfully, presentation was not being judged.
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Old 06-15-2005, 10:15 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Morgan
I flipped a whole hog one time that was past half way done. Thankfully, presentation was not being judged.
That reminds me of a girl I use'ta know...oh wait, this belongs in the blue room
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Old 06-16-2005, 12:20 AM   #15
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Great thread!

Jack your hammock time is working well.

Rub is a dry cure to a degree, when you cut back too far on salt in the rub you lose something. The correct balance of salt in the rub is needed for good bark and bark effects the flavor of every bite for you.

Knowing the balance where the breaking down of connective tissue but leaving enough moisture in the cut is where art meets science.

Knowing the science allows you to develope the art.

Jim
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Old 06-16-2005, 11:38 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jminion
Great thread!
Knowing the balance where the breaking down of connective tissue but leaving enough moisture in the cut is where art meets science.

Knowing the science allows you to develope the art.

Jim
Well said.

Jim, I cartin' around a bunch of tangerine wood for you. Now I just gotta get to the PNW...
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