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Old 11-01-2007, 04:27 PM   #1
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KCBS Comp rules

Is it permissible to trim pieces from the smoked brisket and saute them with onions in a skillet over a charcoal fire to make a finishing sauce?
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Old 11-01-2007, 04:48 PM   #2
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I have never judged a contest but I am a certified judge. I would say that your sauce can be made how ever you want to make it. With that being said, remember that it is a meat contest. Not a suace contest.
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Old 11-01-2007, 05:02 PM   #3
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Yes, but the sause must be applied to the brisket, and not pooled in the turn in box, say for dipping.
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Old 11-01-2007, 05:03 PM   #4
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You can absolutely use a charcoal grill to prepare a finishing sauce for any meat. Remember that you can't use a "chunky" sauce in a KCBS turn in box.

I've heard various rep's talk about the size of the chunks, most seem to use the kernel of corn to a grain of rice size. It's best to talk to the rep and explain what you want to do and what size they will be OK with.
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Old 11-01-2007, 06:29 PM   #5
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Gotcha on the chunks. Just using meat/onions to get a font for deglazing and a smooth sauce.
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Old 11-01-2007, 06:45 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rag
Gotcha on the chunks. Just using meat/onions to get a font for deglazing and a smooth sauce.
I thought so, but I thought It would be best to remind you. The cheap, Wal-Mart immersion blender (motor boat engine) is one of my favorite comp BBQ tools.
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Old 11-02-2007, 08:14 AM   #7
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Can you use a gas burner like a camp stove to make the sauce?
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Old 11-02-2007, 09:56 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by wittdog
Can you use a gas burner like a camp stove to make the sauce?
I would say yes Dave, the prohibition on the use of gas has to do with the cooking of the 4 meat categories and the fact that you can't use gas assist to light your fires while meat is on the pit. I've never heard of any restrictions on the making of or warming of sauce on a separate gas stove or grill.

Here's one for you though, can you use the gas burner, that many off set pits come equipped with to make or warm your sauce while meat is cooking in the pit?
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Old 11-02-2007, 10:17 AM   #9
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I would say if there is meat in the chamber and the gas assist is in the firebox no...but the fryer on the front like Uncle Happy has yes...
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Old 11-02-2007, 10:35 AM   #10
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That could be look at as frying and that is illegal, I would not do it.
Frying over any heat source is illegal.

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Old 11-02-2007, 10:36 AM   #11
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But can you use something other for making your sauce...and on another note..if you are doing the "jumping Jim" chicken in a foil pan isn't that like frying? Or the guys that basically par boil there chicken in parkay in a foil pan?
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Old 11-02-2007, 11:09 AM   #12
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par boiling is raw chicken boiled in water, that's illegal.

With Jumpin Jim's recipe the sauce doesn't boil if done his way. Not illegal but I see where you are going.

When you use some of these techniques you set yourself up for a judgement call from the Rep, in most cases are you really achieving anything that is worth being DQ'd for?

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Old 11-02-2007, 11:10 AM   #13
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Rule 6 states: Parboiling and/or deep-frying competition meat is not allowed.

It doesn't mention preparation of sauces at all.

Jim - I know you forgot more about competition bbq then I'll ever know, but why do the rules specify deep-frying not frying in general?

According to foodreference.com http://www.foodreference.com/html/art-pan-frying.html

"Pan-frying is a dry heat cooking method whereby food is semi-submerged in hot oil in a pan on the stove top. Unlike deep frying where the food is completely immersed in oil, in pan-frying the oil’s depth is no more than half the food’s height. Another important distinction is that in pan-frying the food touches the bottom of the pan. In deep frying the food is completely suspended in oil."

So reading the rules literally, you could legally pan fry competition meat.
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Old 11-02-2007, 08:18 PM   #14
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My personel feelings are the rule were badly thought out for a couple of reasons. First is how and when will it be judged as illegal by the Rep, if the Rep doesn't see it happen how do you make the call. There has been at least one call I know of where a DQ was used on a a chicken turn-in when in fact what the cook did was legal according to our rules.

Second if you start with fat, oil or butter in a frying pan and place sauce and brisket in the pan can it be called deep frying. Will every Rep call it the same?

My feelings are if the Board puts a rule in the book then it should be very clear what we are trying to achieve and not left up to a judgement call. Clarity is a must.

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Old 11-02-2007, 08:43 PM   #15
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The safe move would be to saute, fry, or whatever, the meat, onions, etc. on an electric stove at home, finishing up with a completed sauce. Pour it into a bottle and take it to the comp. But don't try to make it on site in the spirit of the event. Got it !!
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Old 11-02-2007, 08:51 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rag
The safe move would be to saute, fry, or whatever, the meat, onions, etc. on an electric stove at home, finishing up with a completed sauce. Pour it into a bottle and take it to the comp. But don't try to make it on site in the spirit of the event. Got it !!
I don't agree that is needed, you can make the sauce at home but what advantage to have meat in your sauce at that point. We wrap and hold brisket, butt, ribs in foil and there is juices that can be used to add to the sauce prior to applying to the turn-in. It's legal and in the SPIRIT of the rules.

I personelly don't want to win knowingly breaking the rules and you don't need to.

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Old 11-03-2007, 05:08 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce B
Quote:
Originally Posted by wittdog
Can you use a gas burner like a camp stove to make the sauce?
I would say yes Dave, the prohibition on the use of gas has to do with the cooking of the 4 meat categories and the fact that you can't use gas assist to light your fires while meat is on the pit. I've never heard of any restrictions on the making of or warming of sauce on a separate gas stove or grill.

Here's one for you though, can you use the gas burner, that many off set pits come equipped with to make or warm your sauce while meat is cooking in the pit?


I would certainly say yes. The fact that the gas burner is mounted on the same trailer as the pit should not rule out the use of the burner while the meat is in the pit unless one could show that while the burner is on the gas assist on the pit is somehow also triggered but I know that is not the case.
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Old 11-03-2007, 10:52 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jminion
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rag
The safe move would be to saute, fry, or whatever, the meat, onions, etc. on an electric stove at home, finishing up with a completed sauce. Pour it into a bottle and take it to the comp. But don't try to make it on site in the spirit of the event. Got it !!
I don't agree that is needed, you can make the sauce at home but what advantage to have meat in your sauce at that point. We wrap and hold brisket, butt, ribs in foil and there is juices that can be used to add to the sauce prior to applying to the turn-in. It's legal and in the SPIRIT of the rules.

I personelly don't want to win knowingly breaking the rules and you don't need to.

Jim
I'm definitely not talking about breaking rules. I like (and do best at) making sauces from caramelized font in an iron skillet which has been deglazed with selected liquids. I just didn't want to step on an appendage by wielding a fry pan at a comp.
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Old 11-03-2007, 11:31 AM   #19
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Don't you think you'd be better off doing the sauce the day before allowing the flavors to meld together for a day or so???

How are teams heating their sauces and whatever that have mobile homes, trailers, etc??? I used charcoal and my firebox fire to heat sauce at the Jack after I raised this question and no one seemed to have an answer. Sure as hell didn't like burning my arms like it did but didn't want to take any chances of being DQ'd. As long as you are cooking the 4 contest meats it should not be an issue how you heat whatever you are heating....just so long as it is not contest meat.

I think a definition or clear explanation of what you can or cannot cook in a boiling or near boiling substance, other than water, should be clarified...unless it already has in which case I apologize for my ignorance.
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Old 11-03-2007, 11:32 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by Uncle Bubba
Don't you think you'd be better off doing the sauce the day before allowing the flavors to meld together for a day or so???

How are teams heating their sauces and whatever that have mobile homes, trailers, etc??? I used charcoal and my firebox fire to heat sauce at the Jack after I raised this question and no one seemed to have an answer. Sure as hell didn't like burning my arms like it did but didn't want to take any chances of being DQ'd. As long as you are cooking the 4 contest meats it should not be an issue how you heat whatever you are heating....just so long as it is not contest meat.

I think a definition or clear explanation of what you can or cannot cook in a boiling or near boiling substance, other than water, should be clarified...unless it already has in which case I apologize for my ignorance.
I kind of liked watching you burn your arms...smelled like bacon
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