Rockin Rooster
Senior Cook
I'm tweeking my brisket injection and was wondering what you inject your briskets with? Mine is pretty good but I'm wondering if it isn't too diffrent from what is expected by contest judges.
Injection question
- Thread starter Rockin Rooster
- Start date
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Many use Fab-B
Pigs On The Wing BBQ
Master Chef
If you can get it.Greg Rempe said:
boar_d_laze
Senior Cook
- Joined
- May 14, 2007
- Messages
- 334
I use a mix of double strength beef stock, red wine and worcestershire onions and garlic and reduce it by 1/3. Strain the onions and garlic, and melt some butter into it. Allow to partially cool before injecting.
Rich
Rich
SteerCrazy
Head Chef
If you can get it.[/quote:1eg4rumm]Pigs On The Wing BBQ said:
just got 5lbs of the lite the other day
freakin price shot through the roof though :x
OP
OP
Rockin Rooster
Senior Cook
I've heard of Fab but have never seen it. What is it and where do you get it? I'll probably stick with mine with some minor adjustments.
Diva Q
Executive Chef
it is a phosphate/msg based injection.
Phosphates make a huge difference in regards to the moisture content of the meat. It is my understanding that it breaks down the proteins at the cellular level. However you have to be careful when using it as you can end up with mush instead of moisture. Too much is not a good thing in this case.
Fab can be bought at http://www.theingredientstore.com/gener ... ls/888.htm however they are notorious in regards to late delivery of orders, lack of customer service and not returning emails or phone calls. Apparently of the family members (the Father?) is very ill and the sons are trying to keep up with the business.
Phosphates make a huge difference in regards to the moisture content of the meat. It is my understanding that it breaks down the proteins at the cellular level. However you have to be careful when using it as you can end up with mush instead of moisture. Too much is not a good thing in this case.
Fab can be bought at http://www.theingredientstore.com/gener ... ls/888.htm however they are notorious in regards to late delivery of orders, lack of customer service and not returning emails or phone calls. Apparently of the family members (the Father?) is very ill and the sons are trying to keep up with the business.
OP
OP
Rockin Rooster
Senior Cook
I'm very famillar with the hardships the Ingredent Store is going through. I know they are trying to keep up the service but no one actually works there. I believe there is a son who has a full time job who is trying to fill orders in his spare time or something like that. I hope the father's heath improves. I hear he is a really nice guy.
Thanks for the info Diva.
Thanks for the info Diva.
boar_d_laze
Senior Cook
- Joined
- May 14, 2007
- Messages
- 334
Phosphates, especially long phosphate chains, tripolyphosphate for instance, do bind moisture. They also have a slight anti-microbial effect. Phosphates are not as effective as salt (brining). But they don't carry the same taste either.
FAB is also loaded with MSG. Personally, I shy away from this kind of chemistry in my cooking and reserve it for recreational drug and explosives use.
You might want to take a look at an abstract of a study testing the water retention effect of salt and/or phospahte:
"Excised muscles from cured hams were massaged with 0, 1, 2 or 3% of added salt in the presence and absence of 0.5% phosphate. At intervals of 0, 1, 2, 4, 8 and 24 hr of massaging, muscles were removed and stuffed into fibrous casing for further processing. Samples of the tacky exudate formed on the meat surfaces were also removed at the same time intervals and analyzed for fat, moisture and protein. Results showed that as the massaging time increased, the percentage of fat and protein in the exudate increased in all treatments. The binding quality and cooking loss of the prepared ham rolls, were also improved by the massaging process. A salt treatment of 2% appeared to be optimal for the development of adequate binding with decreased cooking loss. It was found that the presence of phosphate and absence of massaging resulted in the production of a product exhibiting cooking loss and binding properties superior to those of a product prepared in the absence of phosphate and presence of massaging, although the presence of both massaging and phosphate is beneficial for the production of an overall superior product."
Or not.
Strictly speaking proteins cannot be broken down at the cellular level. The action, such as it is, occurs at the molecular level. Given enough time within a certain heat range, moisture facilitates denaturing of many of the proteins present in meat to the extent that the meat itself goes "past well done and into tender [and juicy].
In near English: Meat proteins which are normally twisted around one another, and become more tightly twisted when exposed to heat -- relax and untwist. Density drops, and liquids redistribute more evenly.
Always happy to reaise the level of confusion,
Rich
FAB is also loaded with MSG. Personally, I shy away from this kind of chemistry in my cooking and reserve it for recreational drug and explosives use.
You might want to take a look at an abstract of a study testing the water retention effect of salt and/or phospahte:
"Excised muscles from cured hams were massaged with 0, 1, 2 or 3% of added salt in the presence and absence of 0.5% phosphate. At intervals of 0, 1, 2, 4, 8 and 24 hr of massaging, muscles were removed and stuffed into fibrous casing for further processing. Samples of the tacky exudate formed on the meat surfaces were also removed at the same time intervals and analyzed for fat, moisture and protein. Results showed that as the massaging time increased, the percentage of fat and protein in the exudate increased in all treatments. The binding quality and cooking loss of the prepared ham rolls, were also improved by the massaging process. A salt treatment of 2% appeared to be optimal for the development of adequate binding with decreased cooking loss. It was found that the presence of phosphate and absence of massaging resulted in the production of a product exhibiting cooking loss and binding properties superior to those of a product prepared in the absence of phosphate and presence of massaging, although the presence of both massaging and phosphate is beneficial for the production of an overall superior product."
Or not.
Strictly speaking proteins cannot be broken down at the cellular level. The action, such as it is, occurs at the molecular level. Given enough time within a certain heat range, moisture facilitates denaturing of many of the proteins present in meat to the extent that the meat itself goes "past well done and into tender [and juicy].
In near English: Meat proteins which are normally twisted around one another, and become more tightly twisted when exposed to heat -- relax and untwist. Density drops, and liquids redistribute more evenly.
Always happy to reaise the level of confusion,
Rich
Finney
Master Chef
Ranucci's Big Butt BBQ said:
BigJim? we haven't heard from him about his product since he told us about it the first time. It wasn't available then. :?
SteerCrazy
Head Chef
funny, of all places to sell it, ebay! I'll pick some up!
Diva Q
Executive Chef
I have been waiting for a response from them for two weeks.
Diva Q
Executive Chef
Ranucci's Big Butt BBQ said:
I am really looking forward to your comparison.
I read that Big Jims won't leave a saltier taste.
Finney
Master Chef
Well he's making $4 on the postage. I don't like people making money on their shipping charges.
OP
OP
Rockin Rooster
Senior Cook
Daddy's KungfuBBQ said:
Perhaps if we knew more about what you are using that would help. I stick with doctored up beef broth myself. My cooking partner uses a LOT of fruit juice in his and people seem to like it. There you have two different approaches that would not handle the same kind of tweaking. Apples and oranges.[/quote:2m0vg4d7]
Well I've tried a few diffrent things and so far ended up with a injection that is for the majority my BBQ sauce thined out with vinigar and has some wostershirenmopqrstuv (can't say it much less spell it) sauce and tabasco pepper juice. Now I'm trying to bring it closer to what a typical Brisket injection is. I want to be diffrent, just not too diffrent. This is the process I've gone through with all my rubs and sauce and now that I've begun cooking brisket I'm going through that process again. I'm just trying to speed it up a little.
SteerCrazy
Head Chef
I used the Fab P last weekend for injection. Didn't pump it like suggested on the label and it turned out fantastic. You gotta be careful otherwise you have an overly salty product.
john a
Executive Chef
Smokin Okie's Pulled Pork Baste & Serving Sauce. He is a Mod at another Forum. I use this for injecting and basting, it's good.
(makes about 5 cups)
4 cups apple juice
1/2 cup Worcestershire sauce
4 tablespoons cider vinegar
2 tablespoon dry mustard
4 tablespoon brown sugar
3 bay leaf
6 cloves of garlic
2 teaspoon ground ginger
1 teaspoon cayenne (I sometimes use Hungarian Paprika)
1/2 teaspoon ground cloves (the secret ingredient)
Heat all of the ingredients in a nonreactive pan (the acid in the vinegar will react with some pans be careful) Bring it to a boil, reduce and simmer for 15 min.
(makes about 5 cups)
4 cups apple juice
1/2 cup Worcestershire sauce
4 tablespoons cider vinegar
2 tablespoon dry mustard
4 tablespoon brown sugar
3 bay leaf
6 cloves of garlic
2 teaspoon ground ginger
1 teaspoon cayenne (I sometimes use Hungarian Paprika)
1/2 teaspoon ground cloves (the secret ingredient)
Heat all of the ingredients in a nonreactive pan (the acid in the vinegar will react with some pans be careful) Bring it to a boil, reduce and simmer for 15 min.
OP
OP
Rockin Rooster
Senior Cook
Thanks everyone. I have a good Idea as to where to head with mine.
spott77
Assistant Cook
- Joined
- Nov 9, 2006
- Messages
- 32
anyone get bigjims mix and try it out??
just wondering if anyone has had a chance to try out the concoction from bigjim?
Dave
just wondering if anyone has had a chance to try out the concoction from bigjim?
Dave
Uncle Bubba
Executive Chef
I bought about 6 lbs and am waiting on shipment. I will let you know when I try it.
