if you HAD to finish a butt in the oven/gas grill......

[Uncle Bubba]

Kind of/sort of on the same line...how come I can cook a butt in my cookshack for 8 hours using only a few 3-5 chunks that would fit into my palm and get an over-smoked flavor to the meat yet cook for 12 hours on my klose with all wood and the flavoring of smoke is just right?

I have also noticed less smoke at 275-300+ than 225-250degrees.

 

[LarryWolfe]

[quote="Larry Wolfe":3b0pp78f]The meat will take on as much smoke as you give it for the entire cook regardless of the meat temp. This is why you can have BBQ that is oversmoked, if the meat stopped taking on smoke you would never have oversmoked BBQ. The smoke ring stops forming around 140º.

Or maybe it tastes oversmoked because when the smokering stops forming the smoke just sitts on the outside of the meat and doesn't penetrate..

Where in my post did I state the smoke 'penetrated' the meat?

Gee Larry I don't see that anywhere in your post...and I don't recall quoting you either.....these are just my observations....(I can see where this is going......heaven forbid someone have a different viewpoint) [/quote:3b0pp78f]

Look Dave I don't have a problem with anyone having a different viewpoint from what I'm saying so get off your high horse okay? This is not going ANYWHERE. You did not directly quote me, however your post was obvious. I did not take offence to it and you shouldn't have either.

 

[Uncle Al]

And don't forget to keep the water pan full so that the meat won't dry out !

I hate to say it but...Woodman and Larry are both right on the money.

Smoke ring formation stops at around 140° but the ADSORPTION of smoke particles doesn't stop until the smoke stops.

Al

 

[CarolinaQue]

So, I am confused???? :?

The way I understand it, a smoke ring is formed because of the chemical reaction between the proteins in the meat interacting with the nitrogen in the smoke. So if smoke doesn't penetrate the meat, why does the meat turn pink well below the surface. Some times as far as 1/2" or more? It has to be carried under the surface of the meat some how? FOr some thing to "react" to some thing, doesn't it need to be "exposed". In other words, for a "smoke" ring to occur under the surface, it has to be carried below the surface, or "penetrate" the surface some how.

I always understood that over smoking occured when the smoke was to thick. Usually caused by incomplete combustion of the wood. This could be due to wet/green wood or not enough air flow for the fire either on the intake or exhaust side of the fire, maybe a combination of both. Or also possibly due to the exhaust vent being choked to far back allowing smoke to linger in the chamber causing it to go stale?

Just the other day, a friend invited us over for some 'que and upon first bite, I noticed a very strong and over smoked taste to the meat but no present smoke ring. When I asked how he made it, he said that he cooked it in the oven first, then pulled it, and then put it on the smoker to take on the smoke flavor. So, obviously, in this case, the smoke stayed on the surface of the meat.

My point is, there are many variables and ways for things to happen in BBQ. I doubt that any ONE person has ALL of the answers.

I would be interested in seeing the documentation that claims that smoke doesn't penetrate the meat and the science used to find this theory to be true.

Just my humble opinion.

 

[Nick Prochilo]

way to scintific here for me.

 

[Woodman1]

Well, that is a good point Carolina, I think it causes some kind of "chain reaction", or "osmosis" type of effect that ceases at a certain depth probably dependant on temperature or some other factor. Kind of like a hot water burn would affect your skin to a certain depth without the water actually "penetrating" it. Also, "over smoking" can be percieved differently by different people. Some folks tolerate the flavor more than others. I for one, have never tasted "over smoked" meat. I think that the point about burning a clean, fire is certainly valid. Under seasoned, or wet wood certainly would cause "dirty" smoke. In addition, as Bubba so deftly notes, a hotter fire will burn cleaner and more completely. The hotter the fire, the more complete the combustion and thus, the fewer the residual particulates. I think also, as Bubba mentions, the smaller the chamber, the less the air circulation allowing for the precipitation of those particulates onto the surface of the meat because of prolonged contact. I am not a scientist, but it seems quite logical. to me. Not picking on Witt, he knows his stuff, but the concept that thin , wispy smoke "penetrates" a dense plug of meat just does not make sense!!!

 

[CarolinaQue]

I see your point and some what agree. The science stuff about food really fascinates me.

 

[Finney]

I doubt that any ONE person has ALL of the answers.

I do... but I'm not telling...
You can't make me... you can't make me.

 

[Puff1]

way to scintific here for me.

Kinda' takes all the fun and "what if" outta' BBQ doesn't it?

 

[Nick Prochilo]

way to scintific here for me.

Kinda' takes all the fun and "what if" outta' BBQ doesn't it?

Yup! And Finney does know, but he never tells!

 

[BadCook]

This is why we should par boil the meat before cooking it so you can't over smoke it.

 

[Uncle Al]

Just thought I'd end the discussion with a very accurate and informative article on the science of smoke ring formation.

http://www.geocities.com/senortoad/SmokeRinginBarbequeMeats.htm

Al

 

[Woodman1]

The very things he recommends to produce a better smoke ring, are the same things that will cause a bitter "over smoked" taste. Cooler fire, wet, or green wood! Thanks Al. WM

 

[wittdog]

Well, that is a good point Carolina, I think it causes some kind of "chain reaction", or "osmosis" type of effect that ceases at a certain depth probably dependant on temperature or some other factor. Kind of like a hot water burn would affect your skin to a certain depth without the water actually "penetrating" it. Also, "over smoking" can be percieved differently by different people. Some folks tolerate the flavor more than others. I for one, have never tasted "over smoked" meat. I think that the point about burning a clean, fire is certainly valid. Under seasoned, or wet wood certainly would cause "dirty" smoke. In addition, as Bubba so deftly notes, a hotter fire will burn cleaner and more completely. The hotter the fire, the more complete the combustion and thus, the fewer the residual particulates. I think also, as Bubba mentions, the smaller the chamber, the less the air circulation allowing for the precipitation of those particulates onto the surface of the meat because of prolonged contact. I am not a scientist, but it seems quite logical. to me. Not picking on Witt, he knows his stuff, but the concept that thin , wispy smoke "penetrates" a dense plug of meat just does not make sense!!!

I'm pretty much agreeing to disagree here...just keep in mind that the "dense plug of meat" depending on what cut it is is made up of seperate muscle fibers.... when you cold smoke you want the outside of the meat to dry so a smokering doesn't form and the smoke penetrates the meat......but then again what do I know...I smoke eggs in the shell

[quote="Larry Wolfe":9n13ykym][quote="Larry Wolfe":9n13ykym]The meat will take on as much smoke as you give it for the entire cook regardless of the meat temp. This is why you can have BBQ that is oversmoked, if the meat stopped taking on smoke you would never have oversmoked BBQ. The smoke ring stops forming around 140º.

Or maybe it tastes oversmoked because when the smokering stops forming the smoke just sitts on the outside of the meat and doesn't penetrate..

Where in my post did I state the smoke 'penetrated' the meat?

Gee Larry I don't see that anywhere in your post...and I don't recall quoting you either.....these are just my observations....(I can see where this is going......heaven forbid someone have a different viewpoint) [/quote:9n13ykym]

Look Dave I don't have a problem with anyone having a different viewpoint from what I'm saying so get off your high horse okay? This is not going ANYWHERE. You did not directly quote me, however your post was obvious. I did not take offence to it and you shouldn't have either.[/quote:9n13ykym]
and Larry I'm not on a high horse....but post was directed at Woodman..not you...and it seems like you did take offesne..but I'm not going to argue...or get into it...I could care less..

 

[Woodman1]

Dave, Larry is gay, and , obviously in love with me. Therefore, what you do to me, you do to him. It's a "gay" thing, we wouldn't understand....... :roll:

 

[wittdog]

Dave, Larry is gay, and , obviously in love with me. Therefore, what you do to me, you do to him. It's a "gay" thing, we wouldn't understand....... :roll:

I thought you were one of those "animal lovers"...

 

[LarryWolfe]

Or maybe it tastes oversmoked because when the smokering stops forming the smoke just sitts on the outside of the meat and doesn't penetrate..

[I'm pretty much agreeing to disagree here...just keep in mind that the "dense plug of meat" depending on what cut it is is made up of seperate muscle fibers.... when you cold smoke you want the outside of the meat to dry so a smokering doesn't form and the smoke penetrates the meat......

Make up your mind............. :roll:

 

[wittdog]

Or maybe it tastes oversmoked because when the smokering stops forming the smoke just sitts on the outside of the meat and doesn't penetrate..

[I'm pretty much agreeing to disagree here...just keep in mind that the "dense plug of meat" depending on what cut it is is made up of seperate muscle fibers.... when you cold smoke you want the outside of the meat to dry so a smokering doesn't form and the smoke penetrates the meat......

Make up your mind............. :roll:

Read it again...you might be able to figure it out...its' all about what happens after a smoke ring forms or the meat reaches a certain temp....

 

[LarryWolfe]

Or maybe it tastes oversmoked because when the smokering stops forming the smoke just sitts on the outside of the meat and doesn't penetrate..

[I'm pretty much agreeing to disagree here...just keep in mind that the "dense plug of meat" depending on what cut it is is made up of seperate muscle fibers.... when you cold smoke you want the outside of the meat to dry so a smokering doesn't form and the smoke penetrates the meat......

Make up your mind............. :roll:

Read it again...you might be able to figure it out...its' all about what happens after a smoke ring forms or the meat reaches a certain temp....

I read it over and over and still couldn't figure out your posts, guess I'm not smart as smart as you. I already understoodd what, when, how, etc about the smoke ring. You're contradiciting yourself with your two statements........................it doesn't really matter. Thanks for you time attempting to explain it to me, I will eventually learn.

><> Peace <><

 

[Woodman1]

Dave, Larry is gay, and , obviously in love with me. Therefore, what you do to me, you do to him. It's a "gay" thing, we wouldn't understand....... :roll:

I thought you were one of those "animal lovers"...

It is a FEMALE sheep?