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Old 10-16-2005, 10:47 PM   #1
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KCBS and Gas Cookers

Quote:
Originally Posted by jminion
I sit on the board of two BBQ Associations (KCBS & WBBQA). The WBBQA helps organize competitions and uses KCBS to sanction them. As someone tht needs to look at the growth of the sport banning the Guru or pellet cookers as examples it would be a step back. What has to be decided is what we are judging, fire control or the finished product.
Jim
Pulled part of this post from another thread. Didn't want to post the entire post due the length. In the tread, Jim goes on to say he believes competitions are going to become more inclusive.

Does anybody know why KCBS does not allow gas?

Do you think KCBS should/will ever allow cooking with gas?
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Old 10-16-2005, 11:31 PM   #2
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When KCBS started they made a rule that would have to be cooked on wood or charcoal. Most other groups are in the same place.

As time goes on I see gas is allowed. The ABA allowed it but didn't get off the ground. Don't believe wll be in the next couple of years but it will happen to some degree in the future.
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Old 10-17-2005, 02:20 AM   #3
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That's just SAD. What's next? Liquid smoke and ovens, Crock pots?
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Old 10-17-2005, 04:38 AM   #4
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Hey, at least I can use it if my fire gets low then!
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Old 10-17-2005, 06:37 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pigs On The Wing BBQ
That's just SAD. What's next? Liquid smoke and ovens, Crock pots?
Liquid smoke in a crock pot is plain wrong, now use it when making Microwave BBQ and it's fantastic!!
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Old 10-17-2005, 07:34 AM   #6
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How about boiling it low and slow (technically a simmer) in liquid wood?
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Old 10-17-2005, 07:53 AM   #7
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If everybody believes the addage, "It's the cook, not the cooker." you have to let gas and electric in at some time. What would be your argument against them?
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Old 10-17-2005, 08:04 AM   #8
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I don't believe the addage Bruce. The cook does have the biggest part in the success of a team. But take two equally talented teams and give one an inferior pit and the other a state of the art cooker and the advantage swings to the team with the superior cooker. That being said the biggest wild card in the comps are the judges, not the cooker, especially in comps that have a high percentage of non-certified judges.

The only way to level the playing field would be for everyone to cook on the same cooker using the same fuel like in All Star BBQ Showdown. Obviously that will never happen. I agree though that the cook is still the most important part of the equation, just not the only part.
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Old 10-17-2005, 08:04 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce B
If everybody believes the addage, "It's the cook, not the cooker." you have to let gas and electric in at some time. What would be your argument against them?
Good point Bruce!
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Old 10-17-2005, 08:11 AM   #10
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Don't get me wrong Kloset, I'm really not in favor of gas or electric being allowed, just playing Devil's advocate here, but in all honesty, the only advantage I see gas has over what is allowed now is the sleep factor.

I have not tasted any Q cooked on a gas cooker that I could say was far superior to anything that a "real BBQ' cook could put out.
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Old 10-17-2005, 09:20 AM   #11
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I agree Bruce. Gas does not impart the flavor cooking over a wood source provides so I don't see the advantage. But since the definition of barbecue is cooking low and slow over a wood source I do not see the necessity of including gas cookers in barbecue contests. That's not barbecue! The sleep issues can be easily remidied by having shifts to watch the fire or even using a Guru!
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Old 10-17-2005, 09:47 AM   #12
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Cook however and in whatever you want at home. I just don't think the comps should go the route of anything goes..
Should these Dutch Oven cooking contests let you throw you Lodge into an electric range to compete?
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Old 10-17-2005, 11:16 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TexLaw
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce B
If everybody believes the addage, "It's the cook, not the cooker." you have to let gas and electric in at some time. What would be your argument against them?
My argument against it is that it turns the competition in to a design contest and little else. If no one is concerned with a pitmaster's skill in tending a pit, then why even bother with on site cooking? If the rules allow me to plug in an oven, toss in the meat, and hit the sack, then why can't I do that at home?


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I couldn't agree more.
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Old 10-17-2005, 01:45 PM   #14
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I agree with Bruce. I would think competitors would not want someone else with an advantge such as artificially introducing oxygen into the firebox via a forced draft. There are many atmospheric conditions that play a part in the combustion process. Atmospheric pressure...hi fronts and low fronts...will definately have an impact on how fast and complete oxygen is introduced into the combustion equation and how well it burns. For you motorheads out there...how much better does your car run when there is "good air" as opposed to high humidity conditions where the air is starving for oxygen. Forcing air into your combustion chamber is a definate advantage. Natural draft puts everyone on the same playing field...sort of.

Gas for cooking should not be allowed because of the safety factor involved. I haven't seen one gas assist yet that is 100% "fool proof" and I don't want to set up next to someone using it that is half shitfaced playing with an explosive gas...although I had some explosive gas this past weekend..lol..good beans Woodman. =P~ =P~
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Old 10-17-2005, 04:29 PM   #15
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Let me start by saying that what I posted above was an observation of what I can see for the future.

Right now the playing field is level to agree, it is legal for everyone to use a fan to introduce air to a firebox. As an aside this was introduced and approved for use by offset and vertical cooker, as time went on and pellet cookers were introduced the fan issue had already been covered so the question was the use of pellets. Pellets being all wood these cookers became a legal pit of choice. If you disaggree with the use of fans I believe that cat is already out of the and a moot point.

At the Royal there must have been 500 bottles of propane sitting around the place hooked up to camp stoves, weed burners and turkey friers. Didn't see much in the way of problems. The biggest fire I have ever seen at the Royal was a few years ago at Dave Klose's site, grease fire in one of his pits.

68% of grill sales are gas rather than charcoal or wood fired, as time goes on and the sport grows I see these folks being included. Good or bad I do see it happening.
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Old 10-17-2005, 04:43 PM   #16
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Good or bad you see it happening? Thanks for your support in the world of barbecue Jim. Face west and say " I don't care any more" Geeesssh. You mean to tell me that if the KCBS allows gas grills, You support it? Don't jump me because I'm speaking my opinion, I'm just asking you a specific question.
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Old 10-17-2005, 04:45 PM   #17
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Let's included them gassers!......................just put them in their own division.................and those with assited air(see Guru) in their own division as well. TexLaw said it best, "My argument against it is that it turns the competition in to a design contest and little else. If no one is concerned with a pitmaster's skill in tending a pit, then why even bother with on site cooking? If the rules allow me to plug in an oven, toss in the meat, and hit the sack, then why can't I do that at home?"
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Old 10-17-2005, 05:16 PM   #18
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The Board has 12 members and there would need to a majority vote, it won't being happening anytime soon. The Board changes by 1/3 every year based on how the members vote (last year there were about 700 to 750 voting out of 5500). I would be asking the folks that are running how they feel on different subjects. Right now it is based on how many people recognize the name on the ballot not what the guy stands for.

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I said I can see it happening, I didn't say I was voting for it or making a motion to make it so.

The idea that this designer pit is better than your pit and gives someone an advantage is interesting, if it where true then you would not see any offset users up on stage and that is not the case. Understand in the BBQ world an offset cooker is pretty new, if you want to cook tradional bbq maybe we should use cookers that have been around for 3 to 5 thousand years, cookers like the BGE. You have picked a point in time and your saying it's ok to this point but anything from here on is wrong. Things will change as time goes on just like they have in the past.

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Old 10-17-2005, 06:01 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jminion
You have picked a point in time and your saying it's ok to this point but anything from here on is wrong.
like the amish?
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Old 10-17-2005, 08:46 PM   #20
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Jim, to introduce air into a firebox, any firebox, with a fan...I have no problem. However, when you connect a thermostat to it to kick on and off at certain temps is bullshit at a competition. You say you have not seen any problems at competitions with camp stoves, weedburners, and gas grills. No kidding and thank God. You aren't introducing gas into a semi confined environment like a bbq pit. However, go turn the gas on in your gas grill for 10 seconds and then light it with the lid closed and tell me what happens. A gas grill might be closed somewhat, but generally are a little safer that a large pit by design. I haven't really seen a gas assist, which most work on high BTU burners sort of like turkey burners, that are 100% stable and most are very succeptible to wind blowing them out. I'd just hate to see a propane bomb...and all it takes is once and you(not you personally) and KCBS are going to have one hell of a liability problem. Anyone check into how much additional site insurance will be with propane burning pits IN USE?
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